Author Topic: How to calculate proper weight  (Read 2432 times)

johnr

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How to calculate proper weight
« on: April 22, 2015, 11:52:59 PM »
Hi

I am new to cheese making but I like being very technical.  I find many recipes that call for vastly different ways to press and at different rates.  For example, Harvati is recommended by Peter to press at 1.5 lbs per pound of curds, yet on other recipes the weight is more like 8 pounds and then on others even more.  Is there a chart somewhere that really tells you the proper weight to use?. 

Also, I am sure that if my cheese is 6 inches vs 10 inches in diameter, that I may need to press at different rates.  How do you calculate the amount of pressure?.  I build a DIY press and can dial the pressure from 3 pounds to 210 pounds.

Thanks

Offline Al Lewis

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Re: How to calculate proper weight
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2015, 11:58:25 PM »
Cheeses are pressed at different rates and times to adjust the PH and to knit the curd properly.  There is no set chart.  Each is as individual as the recipe used to make it.
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Stinky

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Re: How to calculate proper weight
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2015, 01:04:17 AM »
One thing to be careful about is to build up pressure. Start low, work up to final destination, or you'll trap moisture inside the cheese, lose butterfat, and squish cheese through cheesecloth.

Offline OzzieCheese

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Re: How to calculate proper weight
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2015, 02:33:12 AM »
Doesn't that just make making cheese so wonderful - 'It Depends' - Hi JohnR and welcome to the forum.. I too like being technical - for a reason - nothing wrong with that, we very much need to make notes and lots of them but as much as we like to think we are in control - we're not really :)  Make a cheddar one day and try to do exactly the same another - something changes (hence the reason for the notes) life intervenes and sometimes 5 minutes and a 2-3 Degree difference, and the whole story changes - WahhHoo !.  The Milk changes - people use different milk - different cultures at different rates - 'It all depends' and there is the fun.... :)
For example I put press weights in my notes but that really is only a guide for me because someone else may be using something different and as Al and Stinky have said it's all about the end game for your cheese.  One universal guideline "don't over press and don't under press" Whoa... that sound like a indecisive answer.  Well, not really.  "It all depends on the cheese at the time."

Welcome the world of " It depends"

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johnr

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Re: How to calculate proper weight
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2015, 03:04:08 AM »
Wow.  That gave me a headache :)

So far I have made 4 cheeses.  2 were a disaster and 2 looked really good, although I won't know until they are aged.

Making more this weekend.

Thanks for welcoming me.

Kern

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Re: How to calculate proper weight
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2015, 03:13:35 AM »
I am new to cheese making but I like being very technical.  I find many recipes that call for vastly different ways to press and at different rates.  For example, Harvati is recommended by Peter to press at 1.5 lbs per pound of curds, yet on other recipes the weight is more like 8 pounds and then on others even more.  Is there a chart somewhere that really tells you the proper weight to use?. 

Also, I am sure that if my cheese is 6 inches vs 10 inches in diameter, that I may need to press at different rates.  How do you calculate the amount of pressure?.  I build a DIY press and can dial the pressure from 3 pounds to 210 pounds.

The confusion comes from authors conflating weight with pressure.  Pressure is weight per unit of area.  What counts is pressure, not weight.  It is meaningless to state that you press with a certain weight without specifying the diameter of the follower plate.  Rate is a number that depends upon time.  For example, the recipe might call for 10 pounds of weight on a six inch diameter cheese for thirty minutes because the recipe's author knows that this works to help expel whey without closing the rind (thus hindering the expulsion of whey).  The recipe may state that after 30 minutes remove the cheese from the press, flip and redress and then increase the weight to 30 pounds for sixty minutes, and so on until the rind has closed.  If you triple the size of the recipe such that you are going to use a 10 inch press then you have to make an adjustment in the weight used to achieve the same pressure as you now have more surface area.

The area of a circle (the follower plate) is equal to the diameter squared divided by four then multiplied by Pi (3.14159....).  If you calculate this for a ten inch circle and a six inch circle and then divide the two areas you'll have the ratio of the weight increase to maintain the same pressure.  The value of 4 and Pi will drop out of the ratio calculation so the ratio is simply the ratio of the squares of the diameter.  In this case it's 10x10/6x6 or 100/36 or 2.78.  In the example above your 10 pound weight becomes about 28 pounds and your 30 pound weight becomes about 83 pounds. 

If you don't make this adjustment you will not be following the recipe and may end up making a very different cheese.  The goal is to hit the right pH and moisture content when the rind is sufficiently closed.  Generally it works this way:  The rind closure and moisture content drop (whey and water expulsion) more or less go hand in hand while the pH drop lags.  This way the cheese only has to stay in the press until you hit the target pH.

Got it?  :o 

Offline smolt1

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Re: How to calculate proper weight
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2015, 04:22:26 AM »
I guess my new cheese recipe on a bumper sticker isn't going to work. 8)

qdog1955

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Re: How to calculate proper weight
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2015, 05:20:51 AM »
Welcome-----some times we forget the frustrations of rookie cheese making-----but quite a few members seem to think the best way for beginners is to place a light weight, say eight lbs on your press----watch the weep holes and you'll see whey being expelled and when that has stopped ----flip, redress, put back in the mold and increase the weight, say to 16 lbs. and so on-----remember the recipes are guidelines and can drive you crazy in there differences. Those make notes will help on the next cheese and as you gain some experience, things won't seem so daunting. Use the search feature ----lot's of questions are answered there. In my opinion, a PH meter is a real help to the beginner.
Qdog

johnr

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Re: How to calculate proper weight
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2015, 07:49:24 PM »
Kern,

Awesome response.  It makes sense.

I have found that even between recipes of the same amount of milk, weight varies significantly.  I was looking at two recipes one from Peter D and another from another well known author and even there, the the differences are very big. 

Thank you so much!!!

Offline OzzieCheese

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Re: How to calculate proper weight
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2015, 10:12:50 PM »
I think John, we are all trying to say that no matter what ... it's cheese and with that comes an amazing range of variability and not all of those factors can we control.  This is why is is so much fun :)

-- Mal
Usually if one person asks a question then 10 are waiting for the answer - Please ask !