Author Topic: Technical recipes with PH / AC points  (Read 2496 times)

johnr

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Technical recipes with PH / AC points
« on: April 22, 2015, 11:55:36 PM »
Hi

Where can I find recipes for making cheeses where PH set points are detailed every step of the way.

Thanks

Stinky

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Re: Technical recipes with PH / AC points
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2015, 01:03:08 AM »
In Gianaclis Caldwell's book Mastering Artisan Cheesemaking, her recipes have pH targets. Also, if you search around on the forum or ask for a certain cheese you should be able to find out.

Kern

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Re: Technical recipes with PH / AC points
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2015, 03:40:44 AM »
Ditto for Caldwell's book.  The most important pH goal is the final pH.  Cheese pH numbers can be found on the web.  The first pH measurement should be of the milk and it usually is about 6.7 give or take.  Assuming a viable starting culture and the proper amount, the milk pH usually won't drop more than about 0.1-0.2 pH units by the time of renneting.    After cutting the whey pH is usually monitored to judge when draining should occur.  After this the curd pH is closely watched as the whey pH no longer matters. 
« Last Edit: April 23, 2015, 04:21:40 AM by Kern »

Offline awakephd

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Re: Technical recipes with PH / AC points
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2015, 04:45:12 PM »
Another vote for Caldwell's book. One of the great advantages of this book is that it helps you to understand the variables and make your own adjustments to achieve what you are after. Given the variability of milk (especially raw milk, should you be so blessed), ambient conditions (at least for most of us making cheese at home -- some days are hotter, colder, dryer, more humid, etc.), and even the cultures and other ingredients, it is probably a mistake to shoot for a fixed set of parameters; better to be able to adjust as conditions dictate.
-- Andy

johnr

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Re: Technical recipes with PH / AC points
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2015, 07:43:56 PM »
Thanks everyone,

I do have the book and I have read it.  Indeed it is very nicely written. 

The reason for my post is so I can get specific recipes with PH targets so I can follow them.  I have a few but most recipes don't mention PH targets

Thanks

Stinky

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Re: Technical recipes with PH / AC points
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2015, 09:19:53 PM »
But the ones in Caldwell do.  ???

Kern

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Re: Technical recipes with PH / AC points
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2015, 01:24:09 AM »
You can take what's in Caldwell's book and extend it to other similar recipes.  The point about pH is that if you control this along with moisture and salt content you can repeatedly make the same cheese from the same milk other parameters being the same.  So, if I make a cheese that does not have pH goals I take the pH at certain critical points as I follow the recipe and note the value on my cheese make sheet.  Here's what I measure:

Milk pH
Milk pH at the end of the recipe's stated ripening period.
Whey pH shortly after cutting the curd.
Whey pH at draining.
Curd pH as the curd goes into the press
pH of the cheese when the recipe says to salt or brine it.

Now if I like the cheese I made and want to make it again I can refer back to my make sheet and use the pH numbers as goals.  On the other hand if I think the cheese is a bit dry and crumbly and kind of tart I might set the goal pH for the finished cheese a bit higher and at the same time raise the pH goal at draining by a tenth or so thus cutting back on stirring and cooking.   

Since we're not selling our cheeses we have the liberty to make what we like.  The point of measuring pH, time and temperature goals is simply to make sure we can make the same cheese again.  :)

John@PC

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Re: Technical recipes with PH / AC points
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2015, 11:19:39 PM »
Since we're not selling our cheeses we have the liberty to make what we like.  The point of measuring pH, time and temperature goals is simply to make sure we can make the same cheese again.  :)
Well said Kern but I would add that as you learn to make cheese you will be able to get a better feel for what the pH should be at each stage, even if it's a cheese you haven't made before.  I do wish others would give pH targets FYI but Caldwell does do a good job there! 

Offline Boofer

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Re: Technical recipes with PH / AC points
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2015, 01:02:36 PM »
Where can I find recipes for making cheeses where PH set points are detailed every step of the way.
Here are a few of the pH reference sheets squirreled away on my computer. YMMV.

For most of the semi-hard and hard cheeses I make, there are defined pH points for when to rennet, when to drain, when to press, and when to brine/salt the curds. What Kern said.... ;)

When starting a make, I mark the target pH points in the margin of the make sheet as a reminder to myself. One of the things that I learned early on was not to just put the filled mould into the press and check it in the morning (as some recipes would have you do :o). There may be exceptions, but most of the time you can be guaranteed an overly acidic, crumbly cheese down the road.

-Boofer-
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.

johnr

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Re: Technical recipes with PH / AC points
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2015, 05:40:17 PM »
Thank you so much

Seattle Slim

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Re: Technical recipes with PH / AC points
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2015, 02:02:45 AM »
You might also want to check Peter Dixon's website. He has recipes with pH markers.

FRANCOIS

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Re: Technical recipes with PH / AC points
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2015, 06:34:58 AM »
What recipes are you looking for? PH is critical at every step (except for the cut) in every recipe. Even long after the cheese is in the maturation room. Especially for surface ripened cheeses. Whey oh is mostly unimportant except for some continental recipes.

IllinoisCheeseHead

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Re: Technical recipes with PH / AC points
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2015, 01:26:40 PM »
Francois - So when we read references to PH targets, do they mostly mean Whey PH or Curds?

Stinky

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Re: Technical recipes with PH / AC points
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2015, 04:49:55 PM »
Generally curds, as I understand it.

FRANCOIS

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Re: Technical recipes with PH / AC points
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2015, 07:04:14 PM »
It's a curd and whey mix until you hoop. Then it's curd. Then cheese itself. Unless the recipe says otherwise.  The farther along in the process you go the more the cheese and whey pH will diverge (typically ).