Author Topic: Gouda drops PH quickly after wash  (Read 2111 times)

johnr

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Gouda drops PH quickly after wash
« on: May 03, 2015, 01:02:58 AM »
Hi

I am making my third gouda and although I am getting much more consistency than my first two, thanks to Sailor Con Queso's suggestion to create started culture the night before, I still notice that after my last wash at 102, the PH will drop faster than I would like it to to allow it to press in the whey and then press long enough outside to create a nice rind.  I am able to seal the rind well because I use more weight than instructed, but I understand that I should press for 4 to 6 hours and I am done at 2 hours (PH = 5.3)

I use raw milk and the starting PH was 6.6 (high end PH meter and calibrated).  At curd cut, my PH was doing well at 6.45.  What do you think I can do to slow down the PH drop after curd wash?

Thanks

Kern

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Re: Gouda drops PH quickly after wash
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2015, 03:31:02 AM »
You really have not posted enough information to form an intelligent answer.  Whose recipe are you using?  Do you have a "make sheet"?  If so post this.  You stated you were on your third Gouda.  How is this one different than the first two? Same cultures, temperatures, etc.?  Raw milk usually comes in at a pH of about 6.68-6.72.  Your milk seems a little low.  How do you know how strong your culture was since you apparently made a culture the night before from a DVS freeze dried culture?  Did the recipe provide any adjustments for doing this?  Raw milk all three times?

If I had to guess based only on the information you have provided I'd say that your culture was stronger than it would have been if you used DVS powder and it dropped the pH faster than the powder would.  If you hit the goal pH a couple of hours early you are likely fine so long as the cheese in the press was finished expelling a lot of liquid.  If you do the math on the amount of culture doubling every 20 minutes you can see that having twice as much culture present won't make a lot of difference in the first couple of hours but the difference between the amount about the time of pressing can be huge.  The ratio would be 16 to 8 after the first hour, 128 to 64 after the second hour, 1024 to 512 after the third hour, 8192 to 4096 after the fourth hour, etc.  The bigger the difference the more acid will be produced and the time to hit the goal pH will be less.  Put another way a slight difference in time up front won't really be noticeable but such a difference will tend to increase exponentially also.   Remedy?  Next time you do this cut the amount of starter culture back - maybe half as much.    ;)

johnr

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Re: Gouda drops PH quickly after wash
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2015, 05:18:18 AM »
Hi Kern,

I am using my own recipe which is primarily Dixon's.  Yes I do have a make sheet (tracking sheet).   I only use raw milk and the starting PH was 6.66 (Sorry, I mistyped earlier) at 44 degrees.

All cheeses were made with MM100 and I used Sailor's instructions to create a starter culture.  His instructions actually resolved all my issues with ripping and gave me a stable start which was by far better than my other two cheeses.  It is well documented that when the starter culture reaches a PH of 4.5 it is saturated with bacteria.  I inoculated my batch with about 1.25% starter culture.

The cheese was done expelling the whey and it looked really good.  My post related to the multiple recipes which call for over 4 hours of press time whereas I was done in a little over 2 hours.

It may be that I don't understand how to read PH right after the wash.  Adding water seemed to increase my PH and I am starting to wonder if instead of testing the whey PH after water is added, that I should test the curds.  I bet their PH will likely be lower.

Thoughts?

I will post my entire recipe when I am done making the cheese.  It is in the cave now preparing for brine tomorrow.

Thanks

qdog1955

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Re: Gouda drops PH quickly after wash
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2015, 09:36:18 AM »
Seems to me , that you did what the Dixon recipe calls for----it doesn't say 4 to 6 hours---it just says when ph reaches 5.4----his recipes are usually pretty reliable, so I don't believe you have to many concerns.---but then again I was wrong once before ;)
Qdog

Kern

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Re: Gouda drops PH quickly after wash
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2015, 08:31:42 PM »
I agree with Qdog:  Your cheese is likely fine.  The pressing was essentially done when you hit the goal pH and you were smart to get it into the brine at that point.  In my opinion this is where the use of a pH meter is most critical in making cheese.  If the pH goal for Gouda is 5.4 and you're only at 2 hours when the recipe calls for five hours; leaving in the press for the additional three hours can drop the pH below 5.0 thus making a very un-Gouda like cheese.  It is apt to be sharper and more crumbly.   :(

johnr

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Re: Gouda drops PH quickly after wash
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2015, 10:29:49 PM »
I think I understand now what is going on with the PH.  The PH goes up after I add water but the Curd PH continues to drop.  I am reading the curd PH more carefully now. 

See my post http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14617.0.html

Thanks