First Camembert (noob)

[francisco]

Ok so this is my first real batch of cheese, I've done some soft cheese before, but never tried something as complex as camembert.

I think overall the first part of the process went pretty well (up to after drying), but then I had a mix of doubts and not much time to look into them, so the result may be worse than expected, see photos.

I have some questions that I hope someone may clear up:
1. One of the cheeses seem to not have drained the whey completely and some "whey crystals" remained, is that something that I did wrong or is more or less normal?
2. As you see in the cave there is a lot of condensation going on, should I clean this up each time I rotate or leave like that to maintain humidity?
3. After drying phase, I still found some whey in the caves, not much, but I didn't expect it at this point, is that a problem with the drying?
4. At some point the rind started to get loose, is this a sign that the ripening when too fast or for far too long? (left two weeks at 14C and in the mini caves)
5. Once I take to the normal fridge to slow down the ripening, should I keep them in the mini caves or wrapped in cheese paper?
6. As you see I ate one of them, I knew it was too soon (2.5 weeks), but wanted to check that loose rind stuff. It wasn't bad, but wasn't great either, definitely edible. Assuming the others are like these, may they turn out ok after another couple of weeks?

I can provide more details if needed. Batch was 7L of milk, ageing was done in mini caves inside a wine fridge for this purpose, at 14C.
Made lots of notes of the process so I think I can correct any mistakes I made, wanted to share this experience

[jmason]

I'm no expert, and am currently doing my 3rd cam, but I have a few ideas.  Other more experienced makers can correct me if I'm wrong.
More details are always helpful.  like a full list of what went into the cheese and the rough process outline.
That being said;  14 C is a tad warm for the cave, I run mine at 55 F which translates into 12.77 C.  From the looks of the one you cut into it is ripening to fast and has spent too much time in the cave.  I did a similar thing with my first one.  I go to the fridge as soon as the cheeses have a full jacket of PC, which for me seems to be 5-7 days.  The remaining ones should finish ok in the fridge but they will be quite runny (which I kinda like).  But handle them with care so they don't rupture and leak all over the place.  As far as they "whey crystals" I have no clue, that I have never seen.  As far as the condensation, yes you should remove that each day when you turn them. 

I leave mine in a room temperature box for 2 days after they come out of the molds.  I salt them by dry salting right after taking them from the molds, this will cause them to drain more whey, I leave them elevated on draining mats to facilitate this.  By the time I go to the cave they really are done draining.

Your cheeses looked real nice at the start, I think they just need to ripen alot slower and a bit cooler.  I think with care they can still be enjoyable.
good luck

John

[OzzieCheese]

@francisco

Let me see if I can help clear this up... first up have a look at this post.

http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13412.0.html

1. One of the cheeses seem to not have drained the whey completely and some "whey crystals" remained, is that something that I did wrong or is more or less normal?
Unclear what you mean here.. sorry 

2. As you see in the cave there is a lot of condensation going on, should I clean this up each time I rotate or leave like that to maintain humidity?
I wipe my containers out every other day.
 
3. After drying phase, I still found some whey in the caves, not much, but I didn't expect it at this point, is that a problem with the drying?
This is interesting as I dont dry mine but I do leave them drain overnight before putting then into their boxes.

4. At some point the rind started to get loose, is this a sign that the ripening when too fast or for far too long? (left two weeks at 14C and in the mini caves)
If by loose you mean soft then yes it is ripening too fast - my post addresses that point as well.

5. Once I take to the normal fridge to slow down the ripening, should I keep them in the mini caves or wrapped in cheese paper?
I get mine into the colder fridge as soon as they are covered - like peach fuzz! white.  I don't wrap them, just pet them down a little when I wipe the containers out - but not too much.

6. As you see I ate one of them, I knew it was too soon (2.5 weeks), but wanted to check that loose rind stuff. It wasn't bad, but wasn't great either, definitely edible. Assuming the others are like these, may they turn out ok after another couple of weeks?

From the image is does look like they have 'cooked' too fast.  It's like cooking meat - cook it too fast and it burns on the outside and still raw in the middle.  Cams ripen from the outside in and the sooner you get them into the cold fridge th ebetter you control the ripening.

I know some methods say wrap but I don't unless I am giving it to someone.

I hope that helps

-- Mal

[francisco]

Thanks for the response Mal.

On the first question I meant: if you look at the second picture, there are some yellowish patches in the cheese, which I think is whey that didn't drain completely and it dried out there. Doesn't seem overly important, but was wondering about it.

Now I went over my notes and another thing I noted is that my cutting of the curds was less than optimal, it was quite regular at the surface, but remember I found places where I didn't cut it as regularly as I'd expect.

I wonder if these cheeses might get better with some time or if they are already lost.


I'll definitely try your recipe next time, those cheeses look gorgeous. Also like how you're resolving the "turning" problem, I had some problems in that front, nothing catastrophic, but I was close many times.

[francisco]

@jmason for whatever reason I didn't see your response before

It's good news you think the others might develop more or less ok, runny is ok with me. I agree I left them a lot longer on the cave than I should, I was following a recipe that said it should be in the cave for about 9 - 14 days. I left it the maximum amount of time, specially because I didn't know what to look for and instead of getting a feel of how they where doing, I just waited the 14 days. Good thing is now I know what happens when they go over the time actually needed.

Cave was at 54F, my mistake, bad conversion (native Celsius guy and living in the US, still can't convert accurately without a calculator it seems).
When you say you leave them at room temperature, what would that temperature be? I read about 62F should be ok, and 60 - 70% humidity, which I achieved by putting them in the cave at 62F with the lid slightly open (otherwise humidity would go up quite quickly)

[jmason]

for 2 days, more or less, I keep them in a sterlite tote on draining mat and flip them a ffew times a day.  Ideally the room temp is 70-75, but ideal isn't happening now and daytime temps are in the 80s so I will shorten the time a bit.  I have gone to 3 days and it really gives the geo a kick start. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU-6eHMDk28

I do something similar to what she does in this video, except I don't always predrain the curds

Mal (ozziecheese) is the resident expert on cams here, I would definately listen to what he has to say and read over his make descriptions.  I follow his advice about the time to put into the fridge now.  When they have their jacket they go into the cold fridge to finish ripening. 

John

[OzzieCheese]

Thanks for the acclaim - though if it wasn't for other members on this forum I would still be throwing them away - and there were quite a few.  One of the most wonderful things about cheesemaking is that there are multiple paths to the happiness of a lovely gooey white mold covered piece of cheese.  I happen to have found one way and there are others who brine their cams, some wrap them almost immediately.  I think that most of all it a balancing act of enough temperature at the start to get the process going - but not too much - and the cooler temperature to prevent the Ammoniation from accellerating away. 

-- Mal