Author Topic: bubbles in my lactic acid bloom style cheese.....disaster? dangerous?  (Read 2862 times)

Offline Tiarella

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Chester, MA, US
  • Posts: 1,748
  • Cheeses: 81
  • Default personal text
    • Farm Blog
Hey all, started up an almost 2.5 gallon batch of raw goat milk Valencay style cheese.  Started around 10 pm last night.  Hadn't set by morning chores and by early afternoon had signs of bubbles rather than a curd pulling away from the side.  Smells great....some of the milk was 4 days old.  Cultures were a bit of Kazu and some MM100 (hope I'm remembering that correctly) and then the PC Neige and the Geo 15.  Is this doomed to head to the chicken pen?  Or might it be okay?  I have room in the fridge that I could drain it in there if that might help.    heeeeeellllllllpppppppp    ???

jmason

  • Guest
I'm no expert, but if the smell is good and the only danger sign is bubbles I would drain it.  That would get rid of most of the lactose and therefore the food for the lacto bacilli and slow things down a tad.  might not be a bad idea to plan on a short ripening early eaten cheese.

John

Offline awakephd

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Posts: 2,351
  • Cheeses: 240
  • compounding the benefits of a free press
Kathryn, does it smell like yeast?
-- Andy

Offline Tiarella

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Chester, MA, US
  • Posts: 1,748
  • Cheeses: 81
  • Default personal text
    • Farm Blog
It has been draining all night and the smell isn't/wasn't a strong yeasty smell......it just smelled "good"......good like rich, full-bodied, nuanced cheese flavor. I should note that I've made lovely cheese with this milk using just the cultures naturally occurring in it without addition of cultures from a packet.

I discovered another stupidity about my process.  You see, it's been a while since I made cheese....almost a year and I glanced over the recipe and somehow totally missed the bit of rennet I was supposed to add. It's kind of amazing it set up as much as it did. It was rather like a thick yogurt. So I am immediately off the cheese beaten path without even trying.......in fact, I'm off-roading through rough terrain! 

Just sniffed it again and there's not a clear yeast smell at all. It just smells good. It's drained and maybe I'll go ahead at out it into molds to make small bloomy cheeses and try a small bit when one is ripe....see how it sits in my stomach before offering to anyone else. 
Any other hints welcome.....along with ideas for testing for nasty contamination.  ???

Offline awakephd

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Posts: 2,351
  • Cheeses: 240
  • compounding the benefits of a free press
I'd be inclined to trust the smell. I would think other bacteria that could cause bubbling (like e. coli) would not smell so good, though I don't honestly know. And of course, it is not my stomach that is at risk ... :)
-- Andy

Offline Tiarella

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Chester, MA, US
  • Posts: 1,748
  • Cheeses: 81
  • Default personal text
    • Farm Blog
Maybe I better not serve it to anyone with compromised immune system.  :P. But it's interesting to me the level of crap, literally, that can be in milk and still have it produce cheese that kills no one.  A friend with milking Devons was milking his cow in the shed, it was summer, they were cooped in the shed that day (3-sided, plentry of air, breeze, etc) and the milk in the bucket had tons of cow hair in it and I knew from seeing the cow that she'd been laying in dirty bedding (a given with any livestock not assigned personal maids) and that the hair had to have manure on it. Along with all the hair was just plain specks of dirt/manure floating around. He said he'd be filtering it but that's not going to do a lot at that point and yet I've eaten cheese from that milk and not gotten sick. I confess to being a bit less excited about that cheese now bit I'm still into trying it.

I try to find the same medium territory. I am careful to not have stuff fall in the milk but yes, occasionally a hair or two fall in and I do fish them out immediately but I'm aware that's not deleting all potential impact. I'm assuming the good bacteria can out compete the bad.  I have never pasteurized any milk and any bad tasting cheese is likely a result of my lack of skill in cheese making and affinage.

With this batch of cheese I'm a bit challenged on how to deal with it. It's not very firm yet and may never be. I guess I'll try putting it in small molds and letting it drain to see if it firms up. Then I'll salt and ash as usual. I will report back unless/until I am sickened and unable.  :-\

hoeklijn

  • Guest
The MD/microbiologist/hobby cheesemaker on our Dutch forum lately warned specifically for curd with bubbles, because mostly it means a contamination with yeast or bad bacteria, which can't always been determined by smell.
Gasforming lactic bacteria should produce gas in a much later stage....

Offline Tiarella

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Chester, MA, US
  • Posts: 1,748
  • Cheeses: 81
  • Default personal text
    • Farm Blog
Yes, Herman......that of course is my fear...that it's bad bacteria and I know that some of the worst kinds can't be smelled.  I have tasted a small amount of the curd while filling molds (some landed on the counter and I didn't want to waste it) and I guess I can see if I get sick.  I ate about a teaspoon amount.  I do think one time I had bubbles and it did not smell good....not horrible but not good.  I am hoping this batch is okay because the taste is unbelievable.  Thanks so much for your warning....it's so nice to hear from you!  Long time since I've really been here.   :)

Offline Boofer

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Lakewood, Washington
  • Posts: 5,015
  • Cheeses: 344
  • Contemplating cheese
The power of the inoculate cannot be denied!

In my Tilsit #5 I encountered a nasty surprise in the milk I had just poured into my kettle.

After fishing out all of the goodies I could see, I completed the cheese and ultimately enjoyed a superlative cheese. 8)

-Boofer-
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.

Stinky

  • Guest
I was chatting with Pav, and he said while you can't know without testing you should be fine, given you eat fermented food regularly, and are not immune compromised. He thought your thoughts of not serving it to people who have compromised immune systems smart. But said he thought you'd be fine.

Offline Tiarella

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Chester, MA, US
  • Posts: 1,748
  • Cheeses: 81
  • Default personal text
    • Farm Blog
Wow Boofer!  Impressive.  How long was your Tilset aged?

And Stinky, lucky you to talk with Pav!  How is he doing?  Is his creamery up and running?  Does he post news anywhere?  Glad he thinks it is likely alright.

This make will be problematic anyway....the curds are draining in small basket (sorta) molds. If they don't drain much more moisture they may not really hold together or be structurally sound enough to take out of the molds. Chilling them might help bit maybe I'd need to keep them chilled which would delay ripening OR I could leave them to ripen in the molds......they'd be little square cheeses that a small spreading knife could dip into. We will see.........

Stinky

  • Guest
He's busy. As I understand it, going back and forth between Washington and California. But he has baby goats. A dozen right now.  :) I don't think he really posts much anywhere. I only got in contact because I emailed to ask a question that I figured he would be the only person I know who could really answer it well, and he said he doesn't mind talking about cheese now and then. It's fun to get to talk with him.  :)

Offline Boofer

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Lakewood, Washington
  • Posts: 5,015
  • Cheeses: 344
  • Contemplating cheese
How long was your Tilset aged?
4 1/2 months. The cultures I inoculated with overwhelmed anything that "blemish" brought to the cheese. Some advice was, of course, to dump the milk. I'm certainly glad that I didn't.

-Boofer-
Let's ferment something!
Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.