Comparing my 1st and 2nd camembert

[WisconsinDan]

Did 2 things differently from my first make. The first difference is that I ladled the curds into 2 hoops the second time around so they should drain to the proper height this time around and I can avoid cutting it in half.  The second difference was that after culturing I ripened the 1st batch 35 minutes and the second batch just over an hour. I did not think to take pictures of the curd in the pot, but unlike the 1st time around the curd was separating from the side of the pot just before cutting. The main thing I am interested in seeing is how the extra ripening time will affect the finished texture and how much of a difference, if any, will make to the rind after it hopefully blooms. Pictures will follow in the coming weeks.

[WisconsinDan]

I forgot, I also did not drain the 2nd make in a bag unlike the 1st which I did for 20 minutes. Just for easier reference information on the 1st make is here: http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14756.0.html

[OzzieCheese]

@Dan.  The second make sounds like a real winner. The extra ripening will have set the curd up for a better pH.  Also, the ladling without your first hanging will have allowed the curds to settle more uniformly in the form.  This will ensure that there are no internal curd gaps and uniform ripening. Just had a look the first one and they might not have ripened too well.  Also with letting them drain and flipping you are creating a closed rind surface that the P.C and G.C can work better.  Looking forward to seeing these ones in action.  Not sure how you salted them but 2% by weight might be a little too salty - that's personal taste.  Here is how I do it.

http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14727.0.html

http://youtu.be/JNUDxX_m0Xs

.

-- Mal
 

[WisconsinDan]

Nice video Mal, I salted my second batch today and after browsing some of your posts I have a question. Some of the recipes in GC's book, which I believe you have if I recall from other threads, sometimes seem to suggest starting the ripening at about 62F, just over 16C, and 80-85%RH.  Your Malemberts http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13412.0.html seem to suggest that after salting they should go right into my cave. My basement is right around the 16C, but due to some machinery there is a dehumidifier running 24/7; I figure if I keep the lids partially cracked I should be able to get the humidity up high enough with the cheeses doing their thing in there.

My cave is a wine fridge which I keep at 55F, 13C, and have a humidistat with an ultrasonic humidifier keeping it between 85-87%RH. Used to be that I couldn't keep the humidity low enough in there but since it has been slowly warming up the ambient temperature has risen a bit and the fans were sucking all of moisture right out. I can easily get my humidity up to 99% if I want and my controller will keep it there, but I am also aging all of my other cheese in there and seem to have fewer issues with rampant mold growth on those ones now that I have better control of the RH. I have 2 questions:

1. Would you recommend putting those into the cave ASAP after salting?
2. Would you recommend, for the sake of the bloomies, turning my humidity up to 95% and just dealing with the other molds elsewhere in the cave, or will the bloomies create enough of their own humidity in their micro-caves if I leave them open a crack for airflow and leave the humidistat set for 85-87%RH?

[OzzieCheese]

I see where the misinterpretation might come from, there is a gap in the ripening. I salt them and then I put mine in the 10-12 degree fridge until there is a nice soft(like peach fuzz) covering. Usually in 7 - 10 days. I then put them into the 4 degree fridge. I tend to keep mine fully covered and sealed all the way through the ripening process. I air and wipe out every other day. They keep their own humidity in their little containers. I usually only have two per container. I would watch out in keeping them at too a higher temperature as thet will ripen too quickly. I hope that makes sense?

-- Mal

[WisconsinDan]

So nearly 7 days later and I am seeing some white mold on the 1st batch of cheese. As you can see from the pic the mold coverage is not complete. It is, however, growing on both the sides that were cut and the sides that were not.

I am wondering if now is the time to move the 1st batch into the colder fridge or if I am supposed to wait until full mold coverage is achieved?

Also wondering if maybe it is time to spray with a morge since the mold is not growing everywhere or if it will continue to spread overnight?

[Kern]

Looks like the PC is growing nicely.  It should cover the entire cheese in another 3-4 days.  Let it do its own thing.  Keep the humidity around 93-95% and the temps around 55F.  Patience is required in cheese making.  Be cool.   

[OzzieCheese]

I concur, I would leave it a little longer until moving to the Colder fridge.  But not too much longer as they can get away on you   

-- Mal

[WisconsinDan]

The mold is just not really getting the coverage I would have expected and it has been 11 and 12 days respectively for the two makes, and I am not noticing much new growth of the PC the past few days, but the places lacking the PC seem to have a sort of beige sheen which I am thinking might the the Geo in the ARN?  The 1st make has been developing a lot more mold than the 2nd however, and I think that even 4 days ago it had more than what the 2nd make does today.  Anyhow I sprayed them all with a morge made from some goat brie in hopes that the PC will maybe win the battle for the surface yet. They are also smelling very earthy and the 2nd batch smells a bit like bread which is another reason I am thinking I am seeing the Geo on those two. There is noticeable softening on the sides of all of the cheeses, even in places where there is no mold growth, and I am wondering if maybe the softening where there is no mold is due to the yeasts?I am going to leave it in the fridge over night but am wondering if I should maybe wrap them after work tomorrow and get them in the cold fridge because full PC coverage or not they are starting to soften?

[John@PC]

There is noticeable softening on the sides of all of the cheeses, even in places where there is no mold growth, and I am wondering if maybe the softening where there is no mold is due to the yeasts?

Looks like the yeasts are winning the battle.  That last picture looks like a really nice Reblochon but you say the smell is more "earthy" and not stinky.  Would be interested in how these come out.

[WisconsinDan]

So the 2nd batch is softening significantly faster than the 1st. It was feeling about as soft as some of the cheeses I have bought at the store so I figured I would give one of the two from the 2nd batch a try. It still smells a bit earthy but with a slight whiff of ammonia. The gooey part stuck to the knife a little when I cut into it. The taste was a bit tangy yet sweet and the rind has a hint of a mushroom after taste. The middle is still a little less pasty and I am excited to see how it turns out in a couple more weeks. I don't know that I really should call this a camembert anymore though because the mold is almost non-existent on one side of the cheese and patchy at best on the other. I am wondering how much the Geo and linens may have had to do with the softening.  I would suspect it would be more the Geo than the linens however because it does not smell anything like a Limburger or the beer-kaese I have bought at the store. Whatever it was I am loving how spreadable the texture of the paste is on a cracker. The 1st batch still seems incredibly firm and the mold coverage was much better, I have a feeling that one will take longer to ripen. I have attached pictures of both sides as well as a couple after it was cut.

[John@PC]

A cheese for that beauty.  Kind of like an "in the park" home run .

[Boofer]

Nice!  A little longer & cooler and it will be fully ripened.

A cheese for a beautiful effort.

-Boofer-

[pastpawn]

These cams have to get a quick start and, when the white velvet has enveloped the wheel, they need to get to cold temps or you'll have a wet smelly mess on your hands. 

An over-ripened cam smells of ammonia.  That smell will go away if you cut it open and let it sit, but initially it can be off-putting. 

I get a pretty good coverage of velvet after a week.  Two weeks MAX and these cheeses are hitting the fridge.  I do spray mine with PC from the start, as well as include PC and Geo in the mix. 

[OzzieCheese]

Dan,
Good work... my last set of Cams ripened a little fast as well and I can put it down to two things.
1. I didn't move them quick enough into the 4 Deg C fridge - and when measured it was actually 6 Deg C.  and
2. I reviewed the milk I used although 4.4 % fat I only use 300ml of cream - I Definitely need 600mls of added cream per 8 litres (2 Gals) of milk.

This added cream creates a "Stabilised" curd and the Ammonia creation (the process whereby the pH is changed) takes longer and occurs at a much slower rate.  Although I like strong cheese these are right on the upper limit.

A cheese for yours BTW.

-- Mal