Author Topic: Anybody Buying this New Cheesemaking Book?  (Read 11875 times)

Offline smolt1

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Re: Anybody Buying this New Cheesemaking Book?
« Reply #45 on: July 07, 2015, 10:12:07 PM »
I'm doing my part, I live in a blue state and sell most of my presses in red states. And also I am tolerant of any ones views unless they don't agree with me.

A cheese press is a wonderful and peaceful thing because there is only one right answer to the question " what is the mechanical advantage of this press?"

Kern

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Re: Anybody Buying this New Cheesemaking Book?
« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2015, 03:10:01 AM »
I'm doing my part, I live in a blue state and sell most of my presses in red states. And also I am tolerant of any ones views unless they don't agree with me.

A cheese press is a wonderful and peaceful thing because there is only one right answer to the question " what is the mechanical advantage of this press?"

So, does the correct answer depend on whether or not one ignores friction?   ;)

Offline smolt1

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Re: Anybody Buying this New Cheesemaking Book?
« Reply #47 on: July 08, 2015, 05:05:07 AM »
Every one who has taken a class in physics "knows" that all experiments take place in a vacuum with no friction.

Offline awakephd

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Re: Anybody Buying this New Cheesemaking Book?
« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2015, 06:22:19 PM »
A cheese press is a wonderful and peaceful thing because there is only one right answer to the question " what is the mechanical advantage of this press?"

The problem, of course, is that we* are not content with the mechanical advantage; we want to know about the moral advantage! ;)

*Just to clarify, that is the generic "we," not "we on this forum"!
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amiriliano

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Re: Anybody Buying this New Cheesemaking Book?
« Reply #49 on: July 08, 2015, 06:32:22 PM »
I'm doing my part, I live in a blue state and sell most of my presses in red states. And also I am tolerant of any ones views unless they don't agree with me.

A cheese press is a wonderful and peaceful thing because there is only one right answer to the question " what is the mechanical advantage of this press?"

Ha!

Offline OzzieCheese

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Re: Anybody Buying this New Cheesemaking Book?
« Reply #50 on: July 09, 2015, 02:01:12 AM »
Deep !!
 8)
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Usually if one person asks a question then 10 are waiting for the answer - Please ask !

Offline Gregore

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Re: Anybody Buying this New Cheesemaking Book?
« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2015, 05:45:12 AM »
My book arrived and I glanced through the whole thing then started in to read from the beginning . I have to say from what I can tell so far this book has some very useful info , is there some beliefs expressed  yes but then we all express our beliefs through our actions if not our words.  And I am sure I would not agree with at least half the users on this forum with at least half of what they believe about the world and its current system but that does not mean I would not be willing to listen and learn if they had some useful info .

I think what he is really trying to say is that with farming we have  people practicing natural systems of  how things were done in the past ,  and wine ,beer , bread , pickles , sourkruat all have groups making with natural  starters and yet cheese  has. One of that .
Chees as we make it as hobbiyists is really handed down from commercial production and very little of what we do is handed up from the makers of the past  especially here in North America .

He talks about using kefir as a starter culture as it contains Meso  and therm cultures as well as geo  so with this one thing you can make cams  either raw or pasteurized .  My wife has kefir grains so I look forward to trying it out.

One thing I can say is that he sure makes cheese look simple ,  and really it is , but  when we first start out it all seems so mystical and this book seems to have a way of making it all seem so natural , and maybe that is the point of the whole book .

I can see how this book might be a great starting point for beginners instead of one of the kits.  All one needs is kefir grains and milk . 

Offline Gregore

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Re: Anybody Buying this New Cheesemaking Book?
« Reply #52 on: July 11, 2015, 06:24:27 AM »
I just re read some of the original posts about the book and one thing I can say is that it is not a "wheat belly book "


He even mentions that is is really not probable that cheese should be made commercially with raw milk as the risk is too high for contamination , but on a small scale that is more controllable yes maybe.

Also he is. Not against rennet , he is all for it  and thinks it is far more humane to raise the calf for ethical veal and rennet  rather than kill it at birth.

My guess of what has happened is that the publisher decided hobby cheese makers were not a big enough  audience and collected all of extreme verbiage   And wrote a sale pitch to attract a much bigger audience
 This  is not the first time I have heard such things from authors , I have even heard of publishers changing  technical descriptions  to  jibberish.
 
He states his beliefs ,how he lives his life and  how that lead him on this path of learning how it was done along time ago . 

Now it is up to us to use what is good and works within our belief system and  discard what does not , at least until the day it does start to fit our beliefs .




qdog1955

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Re: Anybody Buying this New Cheesemaking Book?
« Reply #53 on: July 11, 2015, 10:49:45 AM »
Thanks for the input----it helps to clarify the intent of the author by someone that has been reading it-----anyone else read it?
Qdog

Offline Gregore

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Re: Anybody Buying this New Cheesemaking Book?
« Reply #54 on: July 11, 2015, 05:37:35 PM »
The author lives on an island that is so far off the grid that  the "off  griders " look like New Yorkers.  I suspect that leads to certain thinking .
 The more I read the book the more I see that he is just bringing up issues we have all talked about on this forum, raw milk use , home cultured blue , wild  starter cultures ,  wild affinage . All with the intent  to save money , be more self sufficient , and try out different ideas.

I say this is well worth a read

Offline awakephd

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Re: Anybody Buying this New Cheesemaking Book?
« Reply #55 on: July 13, 2015, 12:24:42 AM »
Interesting -- thanks for the report. There have been a few threads in the past about using kefir as a starter, but as best I recall the consensus was not very positive. I don't recall if that was based on actually having tried it or not ... :)
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Re: Anybody Buying this New Cheesemaking Book?
« Reply #56 on: August 05, 2015, 12:49:05 AM »
Yes, much of this discussion thread is not actually based on David's book.  I recommend this book.  He makes cheese making simple, safe and accessible to more people.  David's book is mostly recipes. 

How do I know?  After reading an article by him on-line, a friend and I had David Asher put on a three day cheese making conference in our small village mid-June.  I wrote and he responded...

David does address dairy issues though.  For me as a person in a big dairy state who has to be part of a local herd share to get raw milk, there are political ramifications to making cheese that are inescapable.  I have to jump through hoops to be a herd owner to buy GOOD, CLEAN raw milk (2-3 days old, with monthly tests less than 10 and usually 0 coliforms) from animals whose healthy diet includes a wide diversity of grasses making for beautiful curd and excellent cheese--each and every time.  I believe in 'Live and Let Live', I just wish Big Dairy did too.  I do not remember David saying anything negative regarding artisan cheese makers.  Quite the opposite, he served a variety of cheeses he bought in an artisan cheese shop on his way to our workshop.  My impression was he understands their issues and the constraints they are working under with the USDA.

Let me digress before going further, I have been meaning to introduce myself since joining this forum a couple months ago, but have been too busy making cheese, being a grand parent and gardening.  I will do that, but not here, as I have pictures, etc. to post with my introduction...I owe so much to the help I have received from folks on this forum.  Thank you.  I have made the following 'in the style of' cheeses using DVI (with no flops--thanks everyone): Chevre, Crottin, Cheddar, Shropshire Blue, Stilton, Humboldt Fog, Camembert, Gorgonzola Dolce, Caerphilly, Feta, Provolone, and now Tomme.

Using kefir as the culture as David suggests, I have made a tomme cheese.  In addition, I am the affineur for the cheeses our various classes made (Crottin, Gorgonzola, and cloth bound cheddar).  I only received David's book two days ago, but he said that our workshops covered what is in his book. 

Our cheese group just ate a 'wet nurse' style Crottin--amazingly delicious.  But so are my Crottins made with DVI culture, not the depth of character and flavor though.  Both made with raw goat's milk and picture perfect interior development.  What I did notice with absolute objective certainty is the care of the mold rind is so, so much easier with kefir as the culture.  I am seeing this ease of care to be true with the Tomme too (albeit the Tomme is still fairly young). 

David recommends using kefir grains (one of several methods of culturing he discusses) because of the great diversity of cultures found in Kefir grains.  All the microorganisms in kefir are probably not even completely known at present, much less what all their advantages are.  For example, the geotrichum in the kefir is probably not one single strain but a multitude of geo strains.  This is why it is so much easier to care for my bloomy cheese.  In my opinion, a single strain geo can not compete in ease of care side by side with the wide variety of geo strains found in kefir grains.  A wide variety of geos can better handle a range of climate conditions.  If my 'cheese cave' fluctuates in temperature or humidity the diversity of geos are not affected as a temperamental single strain is. This same diversity holds true for the Mesophilic and Thermophilic strains creating more depth of character and flavor.  Ecosystems do better with diversity.  Monoculture anything, whether it is chicken, pig or single crop farms, do not have the inherent resilience to withstand environmental challenges, whether from disease or climate.  I am now finding this to be true with cheese cultures and the several cheeses I have worked with so far using kefir.  This is not politics, this is science.  Are there any draw backs to kefir as a cheese culture?  Not what I have seen so far.  I believe my raw milk cheeses will be much safer and more tasty.  I look forward to making more cheeses using kefir to learn first hand what the strengths are in this method.

Also it is important to note, the monetary savings is tremendous.  I do not have to purchase expensive DVI cultures, maintain them in my freezer and then use them before they expire.  I also don't have to wake them up from being frozen.  My impression was that David wants cheese making to be accessible to everyone, not just the wealthy who can afford all the equipment, cultures, etc.

While I cannot speak for David as I only met and talked with him for four days, I believe he is looking at traditional cheese making techniques to understand their successes and what we can learn from the ancient art of cheese making as it has been handed down through generations of cheese makers.  I had my doubts, but he is very knowledgeable and well grounded in this knowledge with extensive personal experience.  He makes cheese making easy and safe for the individual.   



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Re: Anybody Buying this New Cheesemaking Book?
« Reply #57 on: August 05, 2015, 01:16:28 AM »
Thanks so much for doing this write-up, Bloomer! Quite fascinating. And how wonderful that you were able to meet David!

I've had the book for a few weeks now, and have been slowly working my way through it. I think it's a really great read, and I am super keen to try out the recipes -- once I get a hold of some kefir grains. I'm currently trying out David's technique for camemberts, though I'm using regualr cultures. Will be interesting to see how they turn out.

Thanks again!

Offline Gregore

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Re: Anybody Buying this New Cheesemaking Book?
« Reply #58 on: August 05, 2015, 04:24:55 AM »
I agree david makes cheese making look easy in this book .

I am not quite sure why cheese making looks easier in this book than others that I have read , but this book is certainly the one I would recommend to begining cheese makers .

And I think there is certainly some things in here to challenge the intermediate and experienced cheese maker also  with his back to basics  approach

 not that long ago all cheese was made this way

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Re: Anybody Buying this New Cheesemaking Book?
« Reply #59 on: September 27, 2015, 02:45:51 PM »
I am a complete newbie in cheese making, and I decided to buy this book fairly spontaneously because the "making cheese from scratch" aspect intrigued me.

The political statements may indeed sound a bit rude, but I really think David Asher has a point. A method for conserving a natural product by fermentation - just like pickles, sauerkraut,  etc. -  has largely been turned into a "first sterlize, then inoculate with single strain cultures" biotech operation. It is somewhat ironic that when pickles, beer and stuff is made at home people usually use the old traditional methods, but for making cheese the modern approach is preferred.

Let me add my 2c to the raw milk discussion. As a European, I am somewhat bewildered by the fear of raw milk products that many North Americans have. But as long as the milk is not contaminated to begin with and it is handled correctly, the risk is minuscule. I you find a source of good raw milk, then I see no problems with using it for cheese - even below the 60 day period.

If raw milk cheese really is such a risk, I wonder why there are so few cases of contamination in Europe where commercial raw milk cheese is not banned. Especially the French make a lot of raw milk cheese, not only artisan cheesemakers but also larger companies.

This book advocates the use of raw milk but also advises that adding kefir can bring pasteurised milk close to raw milk in terms of microbial diversity. As a beginner I would not want to use raw milk before I have a good deal of experience, so I am keen on trying this out.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2015, 02:54:54 PM by olikli »