Author Topic: Geotrichum only Cam/Brie  (Read 6945 times)

StuartDunstan

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Geotrichum only Cam/Brie
« on: July 15, 2015, 10:58:24 PM »
Has anyone done a camembert/brie using only geotrichum candidum, and no penicillium candidum? I'm reding David Asher's new book Art of Natural Cheesemaking, and his recipe for camembert only uses geo. I'm just wondering what that would look/taste like. I had a search of the forums, but couldn't really find anything. Cheers!

SOSEATTLE

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Re: Geotrichum only Cam/Brie
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2015, 01:08:54 AM »
I have done crottin style cheeses a few times using only Geotrichum. The rind gets all wrinkly, which I love  ;D and the aroma of the aging cheese tends to be quite potent-not really in a good way  :o. I find the flavor and texture to be delicious, though. I also use raw goat's milk rather than cow's milk. I say experiment and have some fun.



Susan

StuartDunstan

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Re: Geotrichum only Cam/Brie
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2015, 05:55:07 AM »
On the weekend I decided to try out David Asher's technique for cam/brie from his book The Art of Natural Cheesemaking. Unfortunately, I haven't got hold of any kefir grains yet, so I'm just using regular cultures. But I followed the rest of his recipe, which differs quite a lot to my usual one.

The main differences between David's recipe and the one I usually follow are:
1. Only geotrichum candidum is used to ripen the cheese. No fuzzy white penicillium candidum.
2. Surface salting of the cheese instead of brining. (I haven't salted a cheese since I did my cheesemaking course over a year ago, so hopefully I get it right!).
3. You make a wash by taking your leftover whey and adding salt, and then wash the cheese every second day (from memory) for a week. This encourages the geo and discourages everything else.

I only made a batch of two, as I didn't want to be wasting milk if it didn't work out. Below you can see the cheeses just after I have rubbed some salt onto them. It was interesting to watch the effect the salt had on the shape of the cheese as it pulled moisture of it. They kind of went a bit wonky, with the top contracting more than the bottom. This has mostly been corrected now after a flip, but the sides are still rounded and bulging out a little bit. In comparison, when I brine a cam they tend to retain their shape and straight sides and just shrink a bit. I'm guessing this is because the salt is evenly distributed around it.

The cheeses have now been moved into my cheese fridge at 10C, and I'll commence the washing tonight after I get home from work.

I have a feeling these guys are going to take longer to ripen than a cam that is covered in p.candidum. David mentions 2 months in the book, which is double the time that it takes cams made using my usual recipe to ripen! On the negative side, that means it'll take longer before I can eat them. On the positive, I'm thinking the longer ripening might allow more complexity of flavour to develop before it hits the gooey stage. Only time will tell.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 09:44:02 PM by StuartDunstan »

StuartDunstan

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Re: Geotrichum only Cam/Brie
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2015, 12:25:33 PM »
First whey/salt wash done. Still can't believe how wonky these cheeses look! My surface salting game seriously needs some work.

Mermaid

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Re: Geotrichum only Cam/Brie
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2015, 04:22:21 PM »
They look great! I can't wait to see if it works out.
:)

shaneb

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Re: Geotrichum only Cam/Brie
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2015, 06:28:46 AM »
I have a couple of brie sized malemberts in my fridge at the moment. The geo took off brilliantly, but not so much PC. They stink to high heavens, but they look good. Good luck with yours. Have a cheese from me.

Shane
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 06:37:47 AM by Shane »

Revilo

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Re: Geotrichum only Cam/Brie
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2015, 10:14:27 AM »
They look super :D So far I have only used Penicillium Candidum when making Camemberts. Got some Geo delivered so will try that out in the next ones. Interesting to see what happens with only Geo  :D

StuartDunstan

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Re: Geotrichum only Cam/Brie
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2015, 05:30:12 AM »
It's now been 3 weeks since these went into the cheese cave (AKA wine fridge). With my usual brie recipe, they only spend 2 weeks in the cheese cave, then go into the normal fridge. But David Asher's recipe calls for 4 weeks. I decided to pull the pin early with these ones, as the sides of the cheese are getting very soft, and I'm worried they'll get too liquid while the centre is still firm. So into the fridge they go!

The smell of these is quite a bit stronger than my regular bries: definitely much more funkier. Also, three small pink spots of mould appeared on the cheeses, the first time I've ever had this happen. Have dabbed the spots with vinegar, so hopefully they won't spread. You can one on the cheese in the background of the photo below, though it is a little blurry. Anyone have experience with this pink mould? Oddly, the geo seems to be growing right over the top of it, so maybe it's already dead.

Anyway, next update will be in a few weeks when they're done (unless something goes drastically wrong!). 

StuartDunstan

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Re: Geotrichum only Cam/Brie
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2015, 12:26:12 AM »
Well, it's been six weeks now since these Geo-only cams were made. We had a bunch of friends over this weekend for a housewarming lunch, so figured it was a good opportunity to crack the cheeses. My only regret is that I only made two! One and a half were completely devoured. Thankfully, I managed to slip the last half back into the fridge to enjoy with my wife later on.

So yes, was a great success. As I mentioned in my previous post, the aroma is more pungent than a standard fuzzy white cam. And the centre is very oozy indeed, but not so oozy that it's at risk of completely falling apart. It really holds together quite well. The flavour itself was wonderful and creamy, despite not adding any extra cream. It probably could have done with a little bit more salt, but that's just due to my poor surface salting skills. The pink mould (if that's what it was) never advanced beyond the inital couple of spots, and while they didn't disappear, the Geo completely grew over the top.

One of my friends brought over a jar of kefir grains, so I am eager to try this recipe again using only the culture from the kefir and encouraging the natural Geo do its thing, as David Asher talks about in his book.


Stinky

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Re: Geotrichum only Cam/Brie
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2015, 12:37:16 AM »
That's pretty!

Savu

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Re: Geotrichum only Cam/Brie
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2015, 05:01:11 AM »
Hi Stuart, this is a 2 week old Camembert using only kefir, no additives. Followed the recipe and affinage (washing in whey brine from the make) from David Ashers book but used 2 litres of p/h milk. I used my experience from conventional Cam making and allowed the rennet to sit for 90 mins, thought curds were a bit soft after 60mins also added 1.5ml calcium chloride at renneting, also had minimal stirring allowing the curds to firm up for 15-20 mins before ladling into a conventional plastic cam mould.As you can see the geo is just starting to take hold, whereas a normal cam would be covered in white mould. I'm going to leave it unwrapped for at least another week to see how it develops, one thing is the different smell from p.candidum much more pungent not so much that mushrooms smell.
I used p/h milk because that's what I had and wasn't prepared to waste money buying anything special, I used 60ml 2day old kefir as per the book and I got a few grains mixed in which came out at renneting
Don't know if I could support some of the things in the book but was interested to see how it went to make cheese in an alternative way.

StuartDunstan

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Re: Geotrichum only Cam/Brie
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2015, 05:10:13 AM »
Hi Stuart, this is a 2 week old Camembert using only kefir, no additives. Followed the recipe and affinage (washing in whey brine from the make) from David Ashers book but used 2 litres of p/h milk. I used my experience from conventional Cam making and allowed the rennet to sit for 90 mins, thought curds were a bit soft after 60mins also added 1.5ml calcium chloride at renneting, also had minimal stirring allowing the curds to firm up for 15-20 mins before ladling into a conventional plastic cam mould.As you can see the geo is just starting to take hold, whereas a normal cam would be covered in white mould. I'm going to leave it unwrapped for at least another week to see how it develops, one thing is the different smell from p.candidum much more pungent not so much that mushrooms smell.
I used p/h milk because that's what I had and wasn't prepared to waste money buying anything special, I used 60ml 2day old kefir as per the book and I got a few grains mixed in which came out at renneting
Don't know if I could support some of the things in the book but was interested to see how it went to make cheese in an alternative way.

Wow, that looks wonderful! The difference in smell between a geo rind and a p.candidum rind was what I noticed too. Please post some photos and tasting notes when it comes time to try it! I'm quite intrigued and would love to see how it turns out.

Savu

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Re: Geotrichum only Cam/Brie
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2015, 07:43:25 AM »
Stuart, noticed your cheeses sort collapsed after salting, I've found the best way from previous experience on cam making is to salt the cheese top and sides then place back in the mold, then after about 4 hours turn the cheese and salt the top and sides and place back in mold for another 4 hours, if it looks like they're still too soft turn and leave overnight, then try again eventually they will drain and firm up nicely then you can leave out to dry off. The first time I made a double cream Brie thought it was going to end up a pancake disaster but by placing back in the mold and draining more it turned out great.

Offline Andrew Marshallsay

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Re: Geotrichum only Cam/Brie
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2015, 08:28:29 AM »
A beautiful looking cheese, Stuart. It's certainly got me drooling.
Please accept a cheese from me.
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Offline Boofer

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Re: Geotrichum only Cam/Brie
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2015, 10:54:57 PM »
but not so oozy that it's at risk of completely falling apart. It really holds together quite well.
Would you describe it as "very soft taffy"? I've had some Tallegio that looks like yours with that oozy but not flowing character.

Good job, Stuart. Have a cheese.

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Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.