Another attempt at cheese after 2 years. Camembert.

[Shalloy]

Well after my attempt back in 2013 at making Camembert and blue with not very good results I decided to have another go at making some cheese.

I used un homogenised milk and added a 1/4 teaspoon of a Camembert mesophilic mould blend which also contains the penicillium candida, to the milk once I had heated it up to 32C. But after 90 minutes my PH was still 6.5. Should I have waited longer until it dropped to 6.4?  I didn't and added the rennet. Did the floc test and waited 80 minutes before testing for a clean break.  The curds seemed to break clean but I had a good layer of whey on top of about 1 inch deep.

Anyway they are resting now for 30 mins before I stir them so hopefully everything is going okay.

[Shalloy]

Ok well maybe not an inch deep of whey. More like 5-10 mm. 

[pastpawn]

Good luck with your cam.  Its one of the cheeses that I make reliably well.  Love them!

[Shalloy]

Thanks past pawn. So should I have let the culture keep working until I had dropped to a ph of 6.4 before adding the rennet or was I correct in just adding it after 90 minutes even though the ph was only 6.5?

[Stinky]

Thanks past pawn. So should I have let the culture keep working until I had dropped to a ph of 6.4 before adding the rennet or was I correct in just adding it after 90 minutes even though the ph was only 6.5?

In general, keep the culture working until you get the pH you want. Sitting at a mildly warm temperature while slowly acidifying is not going to hurt the milk. Now, letting it sit after renneting, that's different.

[Shalloy]

Well I got to 6.5 which is very close I suppose.  But next time I will wait until I hit a ph of 6.4.

After adding the rennet I did the floc test and let the curds sit for 80 minutes.  (The recipe said only 60 minutes)

I then cut the curds and let them sit for 30 minutes. Stirred gently for 3 minutes and let them sit for 15 minutes before stirring again. Stirred them 3 times with a 15 minute rest between each stir before I scooped out most of the whey and levelled them into the hoops.

Last time I mis understood the recipe and only stirred them 3 times with a 3 minute break between each stir then labelled them into hoops.

So what does the longer sitting time of the curds do? Does this expel more whey from the curds so they aren't as moist when put into the hoops?

[Stinky]

Longer time before cut means the matrix of the cheese will be stronger, it also means more moisture is trapped. Sitting during the rest of the process, as far as I know, is primarily to keep the curds from shattering during stirring and let them acidify a bit more in the vat. At least that's why I would do it if I were going to do it.

I need to learn everything, sorry.

[Shalloy]

So does this mean my extra waiting time between stirring the curds is going to make my camemberts dry out too much?

So many different recipes say so many different things. The one I followed said to rest them for 75 minutes only, after adding the culture. But the recipe on this wiki said 90 minutes. I rested for 90.

And I didnt have time to make a starter culture so just added the dried culture direct to the milk.

Then my recipe says stir for 3 minutes at least 3 times. With a 15 min rest between each stir.

The recipe on this forum says cut the curds stir and let sit for 5 mins, stir again rest for another 5 mins then start to transfer to hoops. 

the recipe I used said this

cut curds and rest for 30 mins
stir for 3 mins a total of 3 times. last time I made cams I did this 3 times in a row and was told on here that I should have had a 15 min break between stirs so this time i did this..
stir for 3 mins rest for 15
stir for 3 rest for 15
stir for 3 rest for 15 then transfer to hoops.

So my curds rested for a total of 1hr 15 mins after first cutting them. Now Im finding out that is possibly too long.  Seems every recipe you read has a completely different process.

[Shalloy]

here are a couple of photos  How do they all look?

[Stinky]

So does this mean my extra waiting time between stirring the curds is going to make my camemberts dry out too much?

So many different recipes say so many different things. The one I followed said to rest them for 75 minutes only, after adding the culture. But the recipe on this wiki said 90 minutes. I rested for 90.

And I didnt have time to make a starter culture so just added the dried culture direct to the milk.

Then my recipe says stir for 3 minutes at least 3 times. With a 15 min rest between each stir.

The recipe on this forum says cut the curds stir and let sit for 5 mins, stir again rest for another 5 mins then start to transfer to hoops. 

the recipe I used said this

cut curds and rest for 30 mins
stir for 3 mins a total of 3 times. last time I made cams I did this 3 times in a row and was told on here that I should have had a 15 min break between stirs so this time i did this..
stir for 3 mins rest for 15
stir for 3 rest for 15
stir for 3 rest for 15 then transfer to hoops.

So my curds rested for a total of 1hr 15 mins after first cutting them. Now Im finding out that is possibly too long.  Seems every recipe you read has a completely different process.

Yep. And different recipes will give you slightly different results. If you followed this one, you should get a good result.

When people talk about starter cultures they're usually referring to freeze-dried ones.

The photos look pretty good. Did you salt the sides as well? A bit hard to tell from the picture.

[Shalloy]

yes I salted the sides too. When I took that photo i had only salted one side at that stage.

When you say ïf you followed this one,  which one do you mean exactly?  What I actually did?  Or the recipe on this site?

[Stinky]

yes I salted the sides too. When I took that photo i had only salted one side at that stage.

That makes sense. It would be sad if you only salted the top. 

[Shalloy]

Ok so Im still a bit confused. Is the longer time I left my curds sitting after being cut going to increase the moisture in my cheese or make them drier?

how long do you guys leave them sitting for after cutting and how many times do you stir them?

[Stinky]

Ok so Im still a bit confused. Is the longer time I left my curds sitting after being cut going to increase the moisture in my cheese or make them drier?

how long do you guys leave them sitting for after cutting and how many times do you stir them?

I don't think sitting longer has a major effect on the moisture level, though it would depend on the temperature, probably. What it'll affect the most is pH.

My cam recipe went as follows

1 ½ gallons whole p/h milk
½ tsp. MM100
¼ tsp. PC powder
[pinch of geo 13]
½ tsp. each CaCl2 and calf rennet
10 tbsp. Kosher salt

Heat to 90º
Inoculate, ripen for 1 ½ hourse.
Add CaCl2 and rennet, aim for 6x floc?
Cut to ¼ inch pieces, sit for 5 minutes
Jiggle/stir to prevent matting for.... [a short period of time?], then ladle off 1/3 of the whey
Add salt and gently stir to incorporate
Ladle into 8-inch [tomme] mold, with cheesecloth since I have no Brie mold?
Let drain for ~2 hours until the cheese is firm enough to flip
Flip every hour for 5 hours, or until it stops draining
Unmold and place in ripening box at ~85% humidity in the refrigerator
Once the cheese is fully covered in mold, remove from box, wrap in cheese paper, and put back in fridge for 5 weeks, or until the center feels soft, flipping fairly often.
[And then the one I'm least sure about...]
Eat.

So mine didn't really stir much at all. What I'm saying is there are many ways to skin a cat. If yours is a recipe from someone you trust to make good cheese, wait it out and see what happens, if it turns out bad in any way try a different recipe.

[Shalloy]

The last time I made cams I did it similar to you and after stirring the curds for 3 minutes I only let it rest for 5 minutes before stirring a further 2 times and then transferring to the hoops.
I was told on this forum that I should have waited at least 15 minutes between stirring.  So thats why I did this time.

So have I run the risk that they may be to acidic then by letting them sit for so long?