Author Topic: What do I do now??  (Read 2792 times)

Denise

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What do I do now??
« on: October 24, 2015, 07:22:18 AM »
This is my first attempt at making Camembert. I followed the recipe in 200 Easy Cheeses more or less to the letter except that I halved quantities to give me two cheeses. I put them in a tupperware box in the cheese cave at 10℃ and turned them twice a day, and after the 12 days mentioned in the recipe they had developed a nice fluffy white surface mould. The instructions are to 'wrap and return to the ripening area', so I wrapped them in kitchen paper (haven't got any proper cheese paper), put them back in the tupper and put the tupper back in the cave.

Questions:
1. Now that they're wrapped, do I have to leave them in the tupper box? Can I save space by putting them in (e.g.) ziplock bags?
2. Should I still be turning them over twice a day? Once a day? Once or twice a week?
3. If I put one of the cheeses in the cold fridge now, will it be ripened just in time for Christmas?

Offline Jules

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Re: What do I do now??
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2015, 09:24:15 PM »
Hi Denise.

Nice looking camembert you've got there.

I just recently wrapped my first batch of camembert as well, but in cheese wrap. Since then I have been keeping it at the bottom of the fridge (but not in any container) as I don't have a cave I can get to 10 degrees C.
I am hoping they will be ready long before Christmas - my recipe (from Mad Millie) said 3-4 weeks after wrapping at 5-10 degrees C, so that makes it mid November, but every other stage has taken longer than the recipe said because of the lower temperature in the fridge.
I haven't turned them yet but probably should sometime soon (it has been a week).

Sorry that is not too helpful - just thought I would put forward what I am doing.
I make cheese and videos about the history of cheese.

Offline awakephd

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Re: What do I do now??
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2015, 04:33:37 PM »
Denise,

I'll take a try at some of your questions, but I recommend you search for "malembert" -- OzzieCheese's (Mal's) name for his camembert make. This is what I have been following, with excellent results.

1. Either wrap OR leave in the ripening boxes, not both. I don't know how/whether kitchen paper will work - the special cheese paper is made to retain moisture but allow the cheese to breathe -- and oxygen is essential for the molds to do their job. For this reason, do NOT put in ziplock bags!

2. I continue to turn once a day, though Mal turns every other day IIRC. If you use ripening boxes, wipe out any moisture when you turn the cheese.

3. I don't think it would make it all the way to Christmas. Once I get a good coating of PC, I wrap and put mine in the cold fridge, and they are ready in about 6 weeks total. Note that there are variations in the recipe that can make the paste more stable / take longer to ripen, so the time frame depends on the recipe you have used.

I hope this will help ... and maybe someone more knowledgeable will chime in as well! :)
-- Andy

Denise

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Re: What do I do now??
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2015, 11:33:13 PM »
Many thanks to both of you for your replies.
The cheeses are wrapped now, so it looks like I should take them out of the container. Scrap the ziplock bag idea!
I've been turning them once a day, so I'll continue doing that.
It looks like the cold fridge is the place they should be, so they'll be moving house today.
According to the recipe I used, left at 12 degrees they should be ready in 4 to 6 weeks, when they should be moved to the fridge, with a best-by date of another few weeks at the colder temperature. I was hoping that having a colder temperature all along would slow ripening way down so that I could show off with one on the cheese board at Christmas, but if that's not going to be possible I'll have to make another batch.

Offline awakephd

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Re: What do I do now??
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2015, 02:11:41 PM »
Denise,

When I get home I'll check the 200 Easy Cheese recipe to see what it calls for. Did you make it exactly to the recipe as far as fat content and type of culture used?

As I recall, most recipes do call for ripening the cheese at regular cheese cave temps (e.g., 12°C), but what I have read here on this forum is that that may cause too rapid a ripening, producing a thick rind and lots of ammonia. Honestly, I don't know, since I have been following Mal's protocol from the first cam I made -- I like the results I have gotten from this protocol so much that I have no incentive to try any other :) -- and I've only made cams 5 times thus far, so I am very much still a newbie.
-- Andy

Denise

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Re: What do I do now??
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2015, 01:34:39 AM »
The recipe calls for 'whole milk', and I used milk that's supposed to be undoctored, with a fat content of '3.6% or more'. The recipe also calls for liquid rennet and I used vegetarian tablets instead, since that's what I have. The cultures I used were a generic mesophilic and Penicillium Candidum Neige, both from Moorlands Cheesemaking in the UK.

I had also read others' comments about the perils of ammonia at higher temperatures, and this is my first attempt at a 'moldy' cheese, so I'm inclining to err on the side of caution.

The recipe says that at 10 to 13 degrees the cheese is ready to eat 3 to 4 weeks after production, and can be stored in the fridge for another 6 weeks after that, so if they're edible they'll be a memory by just before Christmas. I need to make another batch now! Adding cream to the milk sounds pretty yummy, I think I will try that.

Offline awakephd

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Re: What do I do now??
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2015, 02:10:21 PM »
3.6% is higher fat content than what is sold as whole milk in my area (3.2%); I wonder how that compares to some of the other places around the world.

I have added up to 1 quart of cream for 2 gallons of milk, but since your milk is already starting out higher in cream, you might want to try just 1 pint per 2 gallons. Note that the higher the cream/fat, the slower the ripening -- with 1 quart of added cream, plus ripening in the cold fridge after being covered with PC, my cams take 6-7 weeks to get where I like them, which is not quite gooey all the way through -- still a little firm in the center. (Actually ... it may just be that I get impatient and decide that a little firmness in the center is a good thing, because I want to eat the cheese NOW! :))
-- Andy

Stinky

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Re: What do I do now??
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2015, 02:58:22 AM »
US standards are 3.25%, I believe Jersey milk is typically around one percent higher than Holstein milk, though.

Denise

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Re: What do I do now??
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2015, 06:32:30 AM »
Three to four weeks the recipe said, so I hung on for four weeks before cutting the first cheese. As you can see, it's not ready yet: starting to go a bit gooey round the edges, but the middle still has a fair way to go. The taste was OK though, and there was no hint of ammonia or any other nasties, so all in all for a first attempt at moldy cheese, I'm quite encouraged. I'm going to try and leave its buddy a few more weeks before cutting it open.

When I put the cheese board on the table at dinner TLOML muttered, 'You made this?? Wow! :o' - which is praise indeed, considering he is of the opinion that cheese-making is a waste of time -"After all, they sell perfectly good cheese in the shops".   :-\ Hahaha.

Stinky

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Re: What do I do now??
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2015, 06:10:37 PM »
Rather than waiting the specified time limit, easier just to go by feel with this type. Squeeze it now and then and when it's soft enough cut.

I know, it's hard to be patient.

Offline awakephd

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Re: What do I do now??
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2015, 06:15:29 PM »
Congratulations, and a cheese for you!
-- Andy

MarshmallowBlue

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Re: What do I do now??
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2015, 07:29:46 PM »
Any news on the buddy? Also AC4u for the tasty looking cut away shot.

Denise

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Re: What do I do now??
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2015, 10:44:06 AM »
I'm touched that you were concerned about the buddy   ;)

And thank you both for the cheeses!

Sadly, the oven paper did not seem to be helping keep in any moisture, and the buddy showed no signs of softening up at all. I came home one day to find my son had cut it open and had some toasted on a bagel   :o The bit that was left was too sad to take a photo of.

It was quite nice, he said, but definitely Not A Camembert :'( and he was right. The rest of it went on a pizza.

I made a second attempt, this time more or less following the recipe for Malembert; they're now sitting in a container in the cold fridge, nekkid apart from their pretty white coats. I put a little pot of water in the container to try and keep humidity up, but so far they still seem pretty solid. There's a while to go yet, though - maybe they'll do their stuff by Christmas.

I live in hope.

Kern

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Re: What do I do now??
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2015, 10:49:59 PM »
We gauge the ripeness of our cams via the "squeeze" test.  That is, when they start to appear soft all the way across in the fridge or cave, we remove them and let them sit on the counter wrapped in their ripening paper for about two days before cutting into them.  Generally, the entire paste is somewhat runny by that time.   ;D

Offline awakephd

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Re: What do I do now??
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2015, 12:49:58 AM »
If the container is covered (and not too huge), you shouldn't need to include a container of water -- there should be enough moisture coming off the cheese to mist the sides and/or top a bit. As long as you are seeing that, you're moist enough.

Just to be sure there is no misunderstanding, a clarification: the softening of the cheese is not a function of the external moisture per se. The higher relative humidity keeps the PC/geo happy, and the PC/geo cause a gradual change of pH within the cheese, which in turn leads to the softening.
-- Andy