Author Topic: Store Bought Stabilized White Mold Cheeses - Ripening?  (Read 13381 times)

Offline John (CH)

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Katy, Houston, Texas, USA
  • Posts: 4,069
  • Cheeses: 60
Re: Store Bought Stabilized White Mold Cheeses - Ripening?
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2010, 06:51:58 PM »
Francois, how do they "stabilize it", is some sort of food grade biocide added after partially ripened to stop it ripening further?


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline FRANCOIS

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Posts: 788
  • Cheeses: 71
  • Default personal text
Re: Store Bought Stabilized White Mold Cheeses - Ripening?
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2010, 07:21:15 PM »
No.   A stabilized recipe uses thermphylic starters, there are also partially stabilized versions that are mixed meso/thermo.  The major difference is the pH.  Stabilized recipes have high initial pHs, which means the center isn't chalky.  Stabilized cheeses have the same texture at 10 days as they do at 50 days, no ripening can occur.  The recipe was developed in France years ago for export.  The flavor and texture is much more "appealing" to American consumers.

Offline SueVT

  • Medium Cheese
  • ***
  • Location: Vermont
  • Posts: 80
  • Cheeses: 9
  • http://knowwhey.blogspot.com
    • Know Whey
Re: Store Bought Stabilized White Mold Cheeses - Ripening?
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2010, 08:57:52 PM »
Well, I am aware that the brie available in our stores is not the real, raw-milk thing.  I read a detailed description of a large brie plant in France, which takes milk in one side and coughs out thermized, and then pasteurized (really hot) cheese out the other side, which must more closely resemble pasteurized cheese food product, or whatever they call it....

Of course, the issue is the amount of time it takes to create real brie, vs. the 60-day FDA requirement for ripening cheese in America.  There IS a kind of "semi-stabilized" Normandie brie, which will continue to ripen somewhat, since it is heated to a lower temperature.
This, from their site:
"Note; true, AOC raw milk camembert has a life of only 57 days, thus, U.S. import requirements that unpasteurized, ripening cheeses be aged 60 days before admission to the country are automatically impossible to satisfy."

So, it's not so much that Americans like the bland taste of these cheeses, as that these are the only versions making it across due to our rules.

Same goes for Reblochon.....

regards,
Sue

Offline John (CH)

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Katy, Houston, Texas, USA
  • Posts: 4,069
  • Cheeses: 60
Re: Store Bought Stabilized White Mold Cheeses - Ripening?
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2010, 06:04:57 AM »
Francoise, thanks for info, I'm still not sure why a themo lactic acid culture or mix would stop any further activity, must also have to do with the pH as you said. I'm amazed that they can call that product Camembert or Brie!

I took this picture in Vancouver Canada Grocery store, what surprised me is that these were just on a shelf at room temperature, no refrigeration! So they must be really really stabilized :o.

Offline iratherfly

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: The Cheese Caves underneath Manhattan; New York City NY
  • Posts: 1,913
  • Cheeses: 108
  • Cheese, milk's leap toward immortality (Clifton F)
Re: Store Bought Stabilized White Mold Cheeses - Ripening?
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2010, 11:41:32 AM »
Both brands mentioned in this thread, President and Rosenborg (in the photo above) are huge European mass producers and I am sure they are both very controlled.

Lately I have gotten some product sheets for cultures by Danisco. They described the PC/Geo/Thermo/Meso cultures as 'stabilized'. I wonder if this has anything to do with this. I just can't wrap my head around how do you make and maturate cheese with cultures if they are designed to quit working.


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline SueVT

  • Medium Cheese
  • ***
  • Location: Vermont
  • Posts: 80
  • Cheeses: 9
  • http://knowwhey.blogspot.com
    • Know Whey
Re: Store Bought Stabilized White Mold Cheeses - Ripening?
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2010, 05:05:35 PM »
Well, beyond a certain point, I don't wanna know!

If they irradiate it, I'm getting my tin-foil hat

Offline FRANCOIS

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Posts: 788
  • Cheeses: 71
  • Default personal text
Re: Store Bought Stabilized White Mold Cheeses - Ripening?
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2010, 06:48:43 PM »
The Rosenberg product is canned brie.  I have samples of it at work.  It has a 1 year shelf life from memory.  It's combination of recipe, packaging and most likely radiation, but I don't know first hand.

I disagree with the assesment that raw milk brie is not on the market because of the 60 day rule.  You can buy french raw milk brie, which can easily go up to 90 days, at many specialty cheese shops.  Cam is pushing it at 70 days.  It is true that supermarket supply chains cannot handle such short selling windows, but we have done research to push the life of brie well beyond 90 days.  It can be done, there is just no interest in the final product.  As a plant manager once said to me, "We make poor quality cheese that everyone complains about but we are the market leader.  So if we invest millions in new equipment and recipes and make the best brie in the world, what difference will it make?  A share point or two?  Hardly worth the time and effort."

A stabilized product stops activity because the meso has been killed (if it was used at all), only the thermo survives initially and the pH is just wrong for ripening.  The acidity on the rind is just enough to get white mould growing and that's about it. 

While some recipes are mixed meso/thermo - so called partially stabilized, I have yet to see one that doesn't cook beyond the point of killing the meso off, arresting ripening.  It's sort of the point of a stabilzed product.  In my view the cheese is either stabilzed or it isn't.

Offline padams

  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Location: Taylor, AZ (Northern)
  • Posts: 203
  • Cheeses: 3
  • At the Copa, Copacobana....
Re: Store Bought Stabilized White Mold Cheeses - Ripening?
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2010, 02:20:31 PM »
Well, I don't know who decided that americans like bland cheese.  I just made the mistake of buying a president brie wedge, and it tastes like moldy cardboard.  No flavor whatsoever.  YUCK!

But, like I have said before, I live in such an isolated area, and i am lucky to get anything here at all.

So what can I do with my brie?   cook with it?
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll sit in a boat all day drinking beer....

Offline DeejayDebi

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Connecticut
  • Posts: 5,804
  • Cheeses: 95
    • Deejays Smoke Pit and DSP Forums
Re: Store Bought Stabilized White Mold Cheeses - Ripening?
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2010, 08:28:46 PM »
My wife recently bought a brie wedge at a local store that was odd... It was a President brand, in a green foil wrapping.  When opened, it was white on all surfaces, looking like the cheese was molded in that wedge shape for aging/maturation to make it easy to package and sell while still immature.

The resultant rind was thick, hard and musty -- the cheese inside was not soft at all and was relatively bland...

We tossed it.

I bought one of those about a year ago and felt the same way. As a result I haven't even tried to make this cheese. Same for the camembert it was awful. I did kind of like the insides of the crottins though. I chickened out on trying the rind though. bukbukbuk!

Offline padams

  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Location: Taylor, AZ (Northern)
  • Posts: 203
  • Cheeses: 3
  • At the Copa, Copacobana....
Re: Store Bought Stabilized White Mold Cheeses - Ripening?
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2010, 08:30:50 PM »
I trimmed the mold off mine, chopped it up and put it in the ham casserole I made tonite.  Not too bad, glad I added extra cheddar ;)
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll sit in a boat all day drinking beer....


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline DeejayDebi

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Connecticut
  • Posts: 5,804
  • Cheeses: 95
    • Deejays Smoke Pit and DSP Forums
Re: Store Bought Stabilized White Mold Cheeses - Ripening?
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2010, 08:36:21 PM »
I didn't even think that far in advance I just ran to the garbage and spit it out and through it in the can. I have to say though I have een some pretty one here that make me want to try it. I just need to get small moulds or baskets or whatever there are.