Author Topic: My First Belper Knolle  (Read 8469 times)

Offline Al Lewis

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Re: My First Belper Knolle
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2016, 05:25:46 PM »
So far, this is where I am on my new batch of BK. I am using raw cow milk and flora danica following Kern's recipe but I follow NEC on the steps of the make.

How long do you drain yours Ann?  I think I need to drain my next batch longer.
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Kern

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Re: My First Belper Knolle
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2016, 06:06:51 PM »
Al, I drained my last batch until the ball of curd in the drain cloth pretty much held its shape when unwrapped.  At that point make a ball, set it on a flat surface and see how much it slumps in five minutes or so.  I also found that mixing the curd my every few minutes in the final state of draining helped get more whey out as did lightly squeezing it.  I doubt that you could make it so dry by bag draining that it would not stick together as a ball.  Save a little drained whey in case you need to add some back to make it a bit wetter.

I'm on my #4 make right now attempting to duplicate the make in the video.  The main difference between this and #3 is that I doubled the rennet to 12 drops per gallon (3/16 tsp) and decided to cut the curd at a pH of 4.8.  I'm at this spot now.  If this doesn't work they I am questioning whether the Belper Knolle in the video is really made in a lactic process with a rennet assist.  I do know that I get a very white curd in my semi-lactic process.  I looked at the video again and the curd in every clip had a distinct yellow cast - characteristic of a rennet curd cut at a more or less normal time.  More later.

BTW, don't take this the wrong way but your balls look pretty good.  :P

Kern

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Re: My First Belper Knolle
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2016, 06:46:38 PM »
The four photos below show my #4 make in progress.  The first shows the pot at a curd pH of 4.81 before it was preliminary drained to get rid of the clear whey that had separated.  The second shows the curd cut into ~1 inch cubes.  Note the whitish whey in this photo.  The third photo shows the cut curd after 45 minutes of resting.  Note the fracturing and soft curd below the firmer cubes.  The fourth photo shows the pot dumped into the cloth lined draining pan.

These results were quite similar to my Belper #3.  Even with twice the rennet the presence of firm(er) curd only occurred on the top portion of the pot.  I am now convinced that the Belper Knolle in the video is a standard rennet make with the curd drained in a normal fashion and then stacked in a vat awaiting a pH drop to around the 4.6 level.  I can see no path to doing this using a lactic or semi-lactic process.  You simply can't get enough curd integrity this way to fit into what is seen in the video.  That the video curds have a yellow cast and mine are white is a further indication that the now commercial Belper Knolle is made via a rennet process.  As I mentioned elsewhere it may have started out this way but growing sales required that a different faster route be chosen.

Offline Al Lewis

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Re: My First Belper Knolle
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2016, 06:51:24 PM »
Pretty sure their milk and the lighting is what is causing the yellow tinge.  All of the cheeses I've seen in videos are pure white inside.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O_EHKDMOPo  BTW, apparently these are known as "Swiss Truffles".
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Kern

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Re: My First Belper Knolle
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2016, 01:40:33 AM »
Al,

I think that the curd is yellow and whitens up as it dries.  I found no less than 14 places in the video where the color of the wet curd can be compared with white objects.  The curd appears yellow against white vats, aprons, hats, etc.  Even the hosed on plops appear yellow (see the video at the 2:42 mark).  I shoot a lot of video and won't argue that white objects can appear yellow in different lighting, backgrounds, etc.  My point here is that the wet curd is consistently yellowish against many expected white objects.  This discounts lighting as a source of yellow.  It may well be that the milk itself is yellowish.  It likely comes from Simmental cows, a rare breed here in the US, but common in Switzerland.  You are also correct that other videos show Belper Knolle as having a bright white paste - at least when fully dry.  So do many photographs.  Curiously, those on the NEC website show a browish-gray curd against a white plate at the bottom of the BK recipe.

The first batches of cheese I made a year ago were Feta.  The first batch was made with P&H milk.  The drained curd was white and after a year of aging the paste is still bright white.  The second batch made two weeks later used our local Twin Brooks whole milk (Jersey cows - vat pasteurized, non-homogenized).  It was white coming out of the bottle, made a slightly yellow drained curd and now has a well developed yellow cast.  So, color likely is more an indicator of the milk source than anything else.  I have no idea how Simmental cow milk behaves from a color standpoint.  Maybe this explains the color change, if there is indeed one.

But this is missing the forest for the trees.  Unless I am not seeing something, the process shown in the video is not a lactic process for the simple reason that a lactic process does not create a curd with the strength of the cut curd shown in the video.  Belper Knolle may have been made using a lactic process initially but it does not seem to be made this way any longer.  Keep in mind that according to the recipe on the NEC website that this is a newly created cheese (maybe 15 years old).  I've corresponded with Jim Wallace of NEC about BK.  Jim said that he visited the BK creamery when the BK was made using a lactic process and I'll take his word that it was once made this way.  Jim did not explain how the video could be reconciled with a lactic process.

Perhaps only Swiss cows can yield milk that through a lactic process will make a curd with the strength of those in the video.  Jersey cows are certainly not able to do so.  It would be interesting for one of our European members to make Belper Knolle using Simmental cow milk using a lactic process.  My next batch will be to go the rennet route, cut the curd at the appropriate time, drain when firm enough not to shatter and stack it in a vat until the pH drops to about 4.6 and finish as in the video.  I'll report the results in a new thread.

Update: 02/14/16:

Last night I had a flash of inspiration and I think I now know how the cheese in the video is made.  I want to "prove" this is the method but won't get time to do it for a couple of more days.  Sorry for hijacking this thread.  Back to you, Al!   ;)

Kern
     

« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 05:30:32 PM by Kern »

AnnDee

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Re: My First Belper Knolle
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2016, 02:18:07 AM »
I used raw cow's milk and to my surprise, it drain pretty fast...under 6 hours. It can go longer but I was worried it will be crumbly when I mold it together. And this time, I don't have to put the curd in the cold fridge to get the right consistency.
But that can be due to higher room temp here or as I said before because I used raw milk.. The pantry (cheese lab) which I am making all my cheeses is draft free and even when I put the aircon on (which I always do) it doesn't go below 26-27C (around 80F) in the afternoon.

Here's a picture of my make yesterday, I think I made it into smaller balls so I got 10 of them.

Offline Al Lewis

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Re: My First Belper Knolle
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2016, 06:37:04 PM »
Very nice Ann!!  Here are my six little beauties resting in their box and with a shell hard as a rock. ;D  I'll forego the obvious euphemisms.  LOL  Getting ready to grate up my parm so I may have more room in the cave for another batch or two of these.  I would hate to make two dozen and find out I didn't like them. LOL  Oh well, I have a multitude of friends I could pawn them off on. LOL
« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 06:44:41 PM by Al Lewis »
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Kern

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Re: My First Belper Knolle
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2016, 06:49:33 PM »
Your Belper Knolle spheres look great.  AC4U  :D  Watch them in the cave.  I've found that the interior moisture will migrate to the shell dampening it.  You could get a little blue mold.  If the shell starts to feel a little damp pull the spheres out and fan them for a few hours.  After a couple of cycles of this the spheres will likely be stable enough so that mold won't present any further issues.

I think that I avoided the eufunisms, right?  :P

Offline Al Lewis

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Re: My First Belper Knolle
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2016, 10:00:00 PM »

I think that I avoided the eufunisms, right?  :P

Thanks for the cheese.  I actually wasn't getting at you but about 1,000 different ones came into my mind and I just had to refrain from succumbing to my, usually rude, sense of humor. >:D  Thanks for the info on the dampening.
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AnnDee

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Re: My First Belper Knolle
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2016, 03:27:23 AM »
What euphemism? (Putting on innocent look).  ^-^
I think we are on the same time frame, Al... my 'spheres' are in the cave too. Where are you with your batch, Kern?

Offline Al Lewis

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Re: My First Belper Knolle
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2016, 03:30:45 AM »
What euphemism? (Putting on innocent look).  ^-^
I think we are on the same time frame, Al... my 'spheres' are in the cave too. Where are you with your batch, Kern?
Have to love a lady with a sense of humor!   ;)
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Kern

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Re: My First Belper Knolle
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2016, 05:44:15 AM »
What euphemism? (Putting on innocent look).  ^-^
I think we are on the same time frame, Al... my 'spheres' are in the cave too. Where are you with your batch, Kern?

I just pulled mine away from the fan and they are now in the cave cooling off.  (Goodness, gracious great balls afire!) I am starting my fifth batch tomorrow.  I think that I've figured out the process of making these as per the video and will have pictures and a procedure to post in two days if successful.  If not success then the white flag of surrender.  Right now I have 23 BK spheroids and don't even know if I'm going to like the cheese.   :o

Offline awakephd

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Re: My First Belper Knolle
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2016, 02:35:56 PM »
I still haven't gotten a chance to try making this recipe ... but now I don't know if I'll be able to -- so many euphemisms will be running around in my brain the whole time ... :)
-- Andy

Offline Al Lewis

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Re: My First Belper Knolle
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2016, 06:11:22 PM »
Well it's only been 8 days and these things feel really hard.  Letting them age out in the cheese cave in their own little storage bin. ;D
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Offline Al Lewis

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Re: My First Belper Knolle
« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2016, 08:49:18 PM »
Kern you had said that you were trying these at different aging times.  How are they at 1 month?
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