Author Topic: Mixing cultures? Ratio and mixes  (Read 1299 times)

xfionax

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Mixing cultures? Ratio and mixes
« on: February 21, 2016, 01:03:06 AM »
Hi there, I am new to this forum. I live in New Zealand and have a fascination for the cheesemaking process. I have made fresh cheeses but not anything more complicated yet.

I have a question for those more experienced out there about cultures. Can different freeze-dried cultures be combined, and if so - is it as simple as a 1:1 ratio so long as the unit dose is the same for each kind of culture? What are the rules around this?

For example:

A recipe (for an extra hard piquant cheese) calls for a culture that happens to be called 'Thermo C' which consists of ST and LH (S. thermophilus and L. helveticus).
I couldn't find someone selling Thermo C all together, instead found a vial of ST and another of LH. Each says to use 1/8th teaspoon per 10L of milk.
Question: I have a recipe for a cheese that calls for 1/2t of 'Thermo C' - Can I simply mix both viles to a 1:1 ratio, mix well and then add 1/2t of this resulting combination to the recipe??

Second question related to the mixing of cultures:

A recipe calls for a a culture called Feta B which contains LL + LC + ST + LB + LH (L. lastis (lactis), L. l (cremoris), S. thermophilus, Lactobacillus delvreuckii (bulgaris) and L. helveticus).
I have two options for mixing but don't know which is more appropriate.

Option 1: A vial of (LL + LC also called 'MA'), a vial of (ST + LB also called 'Thermo B', and a vial of (ST + LH, also called 'Thermo C'). Hurrah! I have all the necessary components for this 'Feta B' however ST has been doubled up! Each vial uses 1/8th teaspoon to treat 10L of milk, so if I was to combine all three vials in a 1:1:1 ratio.... there will be a little more ST than the rest. What are your thoughts on using this method?

Option 2: A vial of MA (as above), a vial of Thermo B (as above) and a vial of (LBL - Lactobacillus delbruckii (lactis) + LH) also called'LH100'. Once again we have all necessary components for the recipe, but have an additional new bacteria called LBL. As far as I am aware LBL has the same optimal growth range, max temp and roles as LB does.. sooo would my recipe come out too differently to the intended one if I used a 1:1:1 ratio of these vials?

Perhaps it is more complicated than what I am questioning... but very interested in a conversation. Would love your thoughts if anyone has the time. ^-^

Regards,
Fiona

Offline awakephd

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Re: Mixing cultures? Ratio and mixes
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2016, 03:12:51 AM »
Hi Fiona,

Welcome to the forum!

Generally the mixture of cultures that you will want will not be a 1:1 ratio, nor are they that way in the premix packages. Each company has its own "secret formula" for exactly how much of each they blend, but as a general rule, there will be a primary culture, generally either mesophilic (LL) or thermophilic (ST), and smaller amounts of various adjuncts that add additional flavor / aroma characteristics.

One of the most helpful books that I have found is Gianaclis Caldwell's Mastering Artisan Cheesemaking; one of the things that makes it helpful is that she includes charts that suggest how much of the adjunct cultures should be added to go with the primary culture. For example, she suggests that LH should generally be used at a rate of 10%-50% of the amount of ST used.

Don't be too concerned about getting the culture to match exactly to the Feta B. In broad terms, the main thing to worry about is starting with the appropriate base culture, either mesophilic (generally LL+LC) or thermophilic (ST); from there you can experiment with different adjuncts to add different dimensions of flavor -- that is part of the fun of making cheese at home! If you are thinking, "But I want to make it the right way" -- well, according to Caldwell, there are half a dozen different combinations of cultures that are appropriate for making Feta; all start with a mesophilic base (LL+LC), but some of the choices add only other mesophilic aroma adjuncts, e.g. Flora Danica Meso Aroma B, while others add one or more thermos, including a culture often used for cheddars (MA4000, LL+LC+LD+ST) as well as the Feta A/B mixture that you mention.

So, here's a couple of specific recommendations: For the hard cheese, start with the recommended dosage from the package of the ST, and then add to it half as much of the LH. For the Feta, go with your option 2, but use the recommended dosage from the package of the MA, then add a quarter as much of each of the others. OR use the recommended dosage of the MA, then add an eighth as much of the plain ST and LH that you were talking about for the hard cheese.

I have no idea if these recommendations are what anyone else would suggest ... but I am confident that, provided the rest of the make is correct, you will get cheeses that are at least in the ball park of what you are looking for. Start experimenting from there, and quickly you will build your own sense of what you like to add to various sorts of cheeses.

If you are in a position to do so, I highly recommend not only the Caldwell book, but also a pH meter -- the latter is a new-fangled invention in the ancient history of cheesemaking, but it surely does help those of us who lack decades of experience in knowing just the right moment to stop cheddaring, start brining, etc. :)
-- Andy

Chinders

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Re: Mixing cultures? Ratio and mixes
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2016, 01:22:42 AM »
I am so glad that you asked this question, because as a new cheese maker I was wondering exactly the same thing!  I spent so much time pondering the makeup of my first order of my "beginner set", hoping that I could do some combinations to make up something like those combos.   :-\

I have that recommended book on order at the library, so I will have some reading to do when it comes my way.  Thanks for all of the advice that you posted, awakephd!  I cannot quite swing a ph meter (also slightly deterred by having to stock pH buffers), but may order some duo test ph strips.  I am assuming that the 3.8-6.0 would be appropriate for the levels that we will be looking for?  I so want to be prepared for when all my supplies arrive. Newbie anticipation, anxiety and excitement is strong over here!  :o

Offline Gregore

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Re: Mixing cultures? Ratio and mixes
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2016, 04:52:08 AM »
don't bother with the test strips they are so in accurate as to more misleading than  anything.

Offline awakephd

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Re: Mixing cultures? Ratio and mixes
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2016, 10:03:54 PM »
Well, let me qualify Gregore's statement -- it is not so much that test strips are inaccurate; it is that they are subjective, depending on matching a certain color (or at least the strips that I am familiar with). And in cheese making, sometimes you are looking for a very narrow range of pH to get the result you want -- e.g., mozzarella requires a pH right at 5.2-5.3, nothing more, nothing less.

Nonetheless, you can make lots of good cheese without a pH meter, and if you dig around here, you will see that some experienced hands choose not to use one. Personally, I find it very, very helpful for some cheeses, and not really needed for others. And of course, they didn't use them in the olden days, so obviously it is possible to develop the skills to make excellent cheese without one.

As for storing the buffers -- I haven't found that to be a big deal. I bought two 8-oz. bottles when I got my meter (one 4.0 and one 7.0); they have lasted more than a year. They sit on top of the wine cooler that serves as my "cave," alongside my press. I think I paid around $100 for the meter and maybe $3-4 for the buffers.

Welcome to the obsession hobby!
-- Andy