Author Topic: Noob's question about the "best" way to increase temperature very slowly...  (Read 2682 times)

Offline Bernardsmith

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I am trying to think of an effective way to slowly, slowly increase the temperature of my curds. I was thinking about using an immersion heater attached to a thermostat rather than adding a small amount of boiling water to a water bath to increase the temperature of the bath (and so the container with the curds). Has anyone used an immersion heater (something like a "hacked" electric kettle heating element)? Is there a simple method to this process or am I over-thinking the whole thing

Offline awakephd

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Certainly what you propose is doable, but you may be over-thinking. A classic approach is to create a "double boiler" (except no boiling!!) -- the cheese pot surrounded by water by sitting in a larger pot. Heat the large pot on low heat; the water "buffers" the heat to the cheese pot. You will have to experiment some to see what heat setting you need and how long it takes to overcome the "inertia" and get the temp moving at the rate you are looking for.

All that said ... I have to confess that I have been using direct heat for the last 15 or 20 batches of cheese. I have found that, using a good heavy stainless pot with an aluminum-core bottom on my electric stove, I can control the rate of temperature rise very nicely. A setting of 2 on my stove will raise the temperature around 1°F / 5-6 minutes; 3 to 4 gives around 1° / 2-3 minutes. This is actually very comparable to the settings I used when I had a water bath around the pot. Still have to deal with the "inertia" -- undoubtedly the wrong term, but it seems to take longer to get the first degree of temp change than it does to move after that, and after I turn off the heat the temp will continue to rise another degree or so.
-- Andy

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The thing that I, as an newish maker, continue to find perplexing, is how the temperature varies so dramatically in the pot when I'm trying to cook it slowly over direct heat. I think that sometimes my probe must be in a curd, reading 30 C , while a minute later , in the whey near the bottom, its at 40. Constant stirring from the bottom, at least to begin, is what I remind myself; and the double boiler approach is even safer.

Offline awakephd

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If you are getting good curds, the difference may well be the temperature of the whey vs. the temperature of the inside of a curd, especially for larger cut sizes. In my case, all I have access to is P&H milk, and most of the time I get some shattering of the curds. It still makes cheese, but it is not what it could and should be.
-- Andy

Offline Bernardsmith

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Thank you for your responses. I think I will try to use a "double boiler"  for the time being but I gotta think that a heating element connected to a thermostat to heat the water in the boiler rather than my electric range would mean that I have more control over the temperature

Offline Fritz

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May I suggest a wire rack that fits in the bottom of the double boiler (I had to modify mine to fit) that raises the cheese pot, to be heated, off the bottom a bit to allow good water circulation and even heating. As opposed to the cheese pot sitting directly on the bottom of the double boiler. A handful of mason jar lid rings on the bottom of the double boiler work well too. Good luck in your cheese making :)

Offline Andrew Marshallsay

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The way I do it is to place my pot in the kitchen sink and add hot water to the sink.
It gives me pretty good temperature control but would not work if I wanted to use a larger pot.
- Andrew

Offline OzzieCheese

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There is only a slight thing you will need to compensate for.  If you try and use a thermostat in the water connected to a relay, you will be heating a smaller amount of water compared to the milk.  You will probably find to takes ages to heat the milk as the water temp yo-yos around the temperature you are requiring. And yes there is a thing called thermal inertia.  I take mine off 2 degrees (milk temp) and let the remaining inertia of the water heat the remaining 2 degrees C.  I use a 14 litre outer pot and 12 litre inner pot and mainly work with 10 litres of milk.

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Offline awakephd

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May I suggest a wire rack that fits in the bottom of the double boiler (I had to modify mine to fit) that raises the cheese pot, to be heated, off the bottom a bit to allow good water circulation and even heating. As opposed to the cheese pot sitting directly on the bottom of the double boiler. A handful of mason jar lid rings on the bottom of the double boiler work well too. Good luck in your cheese making :)

Yes, this is important in my experience. Before I started going with direct heat, I put chop sticks in the bottom of the outer pot and set the inner pot on them.
-- Andy

Offline OzzieCheese

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I can't believe I haven't got a photo somewhere of my Rig -  ha I do !!
http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14958.0.html

The handles on the smaller one sit on the rim of the larger one 2 litres of water in the 'Jacket'. I'm soon going to migrate to the next two pots higher to an 18 and 22 litre rig as I need to make bigger Cheddars :)

--- Mal
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Offline Fritz

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Sorry to be off topic...but didn't want to restart an older thread..
 I'm still chuckling at your press, Mal... Just seen it for the first time today.... Looks epic ! I'd love to see a thread on its construction for possible replication (wink, wink), if it isn't already out there..  I have a Dutch press similar but smaller and tends to "flip" towards the weights when fully loaded. I guess they don't make many cheddars in Holland :)

Offline awakephd

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Hi Fritz, and welcome to the forum. The design for the press is freely available:

http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14493.msg109813.html#msg109813

The first post has plans (a .pdf file at the bottom of all the pictures) for the first iteration of the design, using an acme-screw ram. Post # 40 has plans (again a .pdf file, but this time it is the first link just before the pictures) for an all-wood version. The acme-screw design goes up to 24x MA, while the all-wood version as shown in the plans goes up to 8x MA. Mal is the only one that I know of who has made a press from this design (the all-wood version); his is slightly modified from the plans as shown, and goes a bit higher on the MA, plus he added a pulley to allow even more.

There is also a very elegant and much simpler alternative design for a compound press here:

http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,8421.msg59142.html#msg59142

If I had seen this one first, I might never have made the one shown in the link above! I don't think this thread included any actual plans, but the design is simple enough that I don't think it would be hard to reverse-engineer it.

If you build any of these designs, be sure to let us know! Incidentally, the desire for high MA, a compact footprint, and avoiding the danger of flipping, were the drivers for the design.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 12:07:12 AM by awakephd »
-- Andy

Offline Fritz

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Thanks, awakephd!
Good info there ... I'll eventually sift through this cool site and be more familiar with it.
Back to the 'temperature - best way to increase slowly thread' :)