Author Topic: David Asher's Kefir cheeses  (Read 4043 times)

Sander

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David Asher's Kefir cheeses
« on: May 28, 2016, 05:01:25 AM »
Hi everyone,

I'm very new to this forum but I've been making cheese now for a little while. I used to work a bit with yogurt and decided that I'd love to learn more about coagulated cheeses. I've been going out to a local sheep farm to learn this on a weekly basis for about a year now. At home I've only tried to use kefir as a starter, following David Asher's book on natural cheese making. Almost every time, however, my cheeses start bloating on day 2 (after salting while air-drying) and I can't figure out why.cThey also lose their beautiful shape and turn into deflated little curd-rags ...

I've changed the milk I'm buying, though I usually use 4real (a local quality QLD, AUS dairy)
I use Milton anti-bacerial solution to sanitize everythin, though I used to boil everything.
I pasteurise the milk just before I use it, including when feeding the kefir though I didn' use to do that.
I feed the kefir everyday, 1 tsp grains/200ml milk

I'm not really sure what the problem is but I've just put the kefir in mason jars so the there is definitely no contact with metal (I had jars with lids before)

I'm trying to think of things I could change to figure out the problem.

Could it be that my kefir grains have picked up a contamination along the way  that they never got rid of or could the same have happened for my bottle of calcium chloride or rennet that I keep in the household fridge?

I will try to get some starer culture by next week so I can omit the kefir and see if it really is causing all the problems. *

Any advice is be much appreciated.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 06:25:44 AM by Sander »

Offline Schnecken Slayer

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Re: David Asher's Kefir cheeses
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2016, 09:17:44 PM »
When you "pasteurise" your milk, what temperature do you bring it to and how long do you hold it there?
-Bill
One day I will add something here...

Sander

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Re: David Asher's Kefir cheeses
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2016, 05:11:08 AM »
Hi Slayer,

I usually take it to 65 for 15 minutes.

AnnDee

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Re: David Asher's Kefir cheeses
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2016, 09:20:33 AM »
Try washing the grains with milk, then make a new kefir for your starter. As long as the kefir taste and smells alright, then it can be used as starter. I use kefir on some of my cheese with raw milk and they are good.
Also, I use 5-7 days old kefir for my starter.

StuartD

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Re: David Asher's Kefir cheeses
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2016, 12:20:56 AM »
Hi Sander. Nice to see another Queenslander on the forum!

I've only tried to make a kefir cheese once using David Asher's book - the dream cheese in oil - and I had a blowout as well, after it had gone into the oil. You could watch bubbles of gas coming out of the cheese and zipping up to the top of the oil. There was so much gas I think the oil got carbonated!

I haven't tried it again since, but my theory is that there is a big mix of cultures in the cheese, and that leaving them out for as long as David recommends in Queensland's warmer weather means that the culture gets out of control and starts producing gas. David is Canadian, so I believe there is a big difference in "room temperature" between Canada and Queensland.

I think if I tried it again, I would put them in my wine fridge and set it around 17 - 20 degrees, rather than leaving it out on the kitchen bench.

lovinglife

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Re: David Asher's Kefir cheeses
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2016, 01:51:15 PM »
I made several batches of David's cheese as well, I did put mine in the wine fridge at about 50 - 55 degrees and it stayed good and aged well in there, and soooo yummy!  I use two day kefir usually, worked good so far.

christoffer

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Re: David Asher's Kefir cheeses
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2020, 04:32:13 PM »
I know this was quite a long time ago but has anyone figure this one out?

I Have the same issue and would love to find a solution.
I only made a couple of cheeses but this "early" bloating only happened when using kefir as a starter.
After i've strained the grains from the milk and put it i the fridge i'll have gas production in the kefir after a day or so. The Kefir seems okey, taste awesome, etc.
My guess is that there is some bacteria or yeast in there that produces gas as a product from metabolising the lactose, or something like that.

Do I have to throw the cheese away, is this bloating bad? I've read that "early" bloating can be caused by coliforms or yeasts with a cause of bad hygiene or too rapid chilling of the milk and outer causes. I don't think any of this is the cause this time even if a can't be sure.

Please someone? I would love to use kefir as a starter. It's just a natural och economic way for making cheese and a love the thought of that.

Cheers,

Offline mikekchar

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Re: David Asher's Kefir cheeses
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2020, 11:08:19 PM »
Kefir is absolutely chock full of yeast.  It's a symbiotic organism with yeasts and bacteria.  All the kefir I've ever had was effervescent due to the fermentation of the yeast.  It's not a surprise to me that it might take hold in the cheese.  What I recommend is to make the kefir, then get some more milk and essentially make yogurt using the kefir (without the grains!).  Then use that yogurt to innoculate your milk.  Hopefully that will keep the yeast population down.

At the risk of alienating people in the same way I've done on Reddit, David Asher's rhetoric is mostly just that, IMHO.  He extols virtues and criticises in ways that fit his view of the world, but in many ways I think that view is a bit of a fiction.  I have no doubt that his techniques work and work well.  However, his lack of precision in describing what he is doing is maddening.  It's only overshot by his tendency to go off on a rant every second page.  I think he also jumps to conclusions that are entirely unwarranted (for example, his discussions of geotrichum candidum, the supposed certainty of it being present in kefir and the supposed impossibility of it showing up from the environment if you are using pasteurised milk).  His book is really rife with errors, so if you are using it as your primary reference, I recommend picking up Gianaclis Caldwell's Mastering Artisan Cheesemaking to get a better idea of how things actually work.

christoffer

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Re: David Asher's Kefir cheeses
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2020, 03:44:23 PM »
Yeah, what you says makes sense to me with all the yeast. Being living creatures the composition of bacteria and yeast is probably different for different people/places.
Hum, interesting with the yoghurt/kefir thing. Could be worth a try even though that I liked the thought of how easy it would be using the kefir...
I mean I make some for drinking and then have a very complex starter culture for my cheese also...perfect I would say only if it would work!

For sure David is very hard in is book and find a lot of the information misleading. I own Gianaclis Caldwell's book Mastering Artisan Cheesemaking and it's just a work of excellence. With that said I am trying to get my information from as many sources as possible and figure out what works and what works best for me.

All good,