Author Topic: Beginner question, is it okay to buy a press without a spring to monitor weight  (Read 2453 times)

James4210

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I've recently developed an incredible excitement to make my own hard cheese and been watching loads of videos.  I've noticed the equipment is quite expensive particularly the presses.  I've seen one that is well made with a single central compression screw thread that you crank by hand at the top but there are no springs involved.

I can see the benefit of even a home-made device having a spring so you have some idea when you were up to 20 kg.  Can hard cheese be made without sprung weight calibration just by turning the handle bit by bit.  Can't find much information about this.  Many thanks James.

Offline Boofer

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Hi James, welcome to the forum.

A press can be as simple as nailing one board to a supporting stud in the house (the lever) and nailing another board (the piston/ramrod) towards the end of the lever. This forms the press. Pressure can then be applied via the piston/ramrod by hanging a weight on the end of the lever. Use the search function to find examples of this.

An even easier solution is to place a board on the mould follower and stack weight on the board. Our forum creator, John, leaned a ladder onto the mould follower to apply pressure for a cheese he was making.

-Boofer-
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Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.

Offline awakephd

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James, I'll add my welcome and second Boofer's comments. IMHO, a press using springs or (only) a screw to apply pressure is far LESS desirable than a simple "dutch lever" style press. The reason is that, as soon as the cheese compresses a bit, the pressure applied by the springs or screw changes, so you have to keep adjusting over and over again. With a lever style press, just hang the appropriate amount of weight from the end of the lever and let it press. The lever style press is usually designed to multiply the weight applied (via the mechanical advantage of the lever), so you can get higher press weights. Many folks simply use a gallon jug of water for the weight.

For a very reasonably priced commercial option, check out the Sturdy Press designs here: http://sturdypress.com/ - very elegant, with selectable mechanical advantage ratios.

If you want to make your own press (or have a woodworking friend make it), the basic lever design can, as Boofer says, be as simple as a 2x4 attached to the wall with a hinge, and another 2x4 attached to the first with another hinge. If you want something more compact, I posted plans for a pretty basic lever-style press in post # 11 of the following thread: http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,6509.0.html. The text is that post is wrong, though - it says the design gives a 2:1 mechanical advantage, but actually it is a 3:1. I make no claims whatsoever about the virtues of this design over any other; it was simply what I put together with the materials and tools I had on hand.

Of course, there are all sorts of more complicated options ... if you're a glutton for punishment, you can read through this thread: http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14493.30.html. At the beginning are pictures and the plans for a rather complex compound-lever press with selectable mechanical advantage from 2:1 all the way to 24:1. Post # 40 in the thread has a simpler version of the design, still with selectable MA but topping out at 8:1. At least one member of the forum has made his version of that design.

Let us know what you wind up with!
-- Andy

Duntov

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I have a rather high end press that uses two springs.  I bought it primarily because it takes up little space.  However, as the mass presses down, the spring loses pressure and you have to reset.  In my mind, a press that has constant pressure would be best.  In an effort to have a compact press that takes up little space, I am attempting to make one myself that uses very cheap garage sale body building weights.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2016, 01:32:04 PM by Duntov »

wattlebloke

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I have used two styles of press: 3 if you include simply stacking weights on top. I agree a lever style is best for constant pressure, however the spring based style has advantages too. A simple lever style needs constant adjustment to keep the 'plunger' perfectly vertical as the cheese compresses; a spring style needs constant adjustment to keep the pressure even as the cheese compresses. The weaker the spring, ie, the more 'travel' per lb of pressure, the less of a problem this is. With a good hard cheese, both these problems have pretty much gone away by the time it comes to leaving the cheese under high pressure overnight.
In answer to the original question, I cannot quite see how a screw-type press without spring could be very efficient at all? But I am NOT an engineer!

James4210

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James, I'll add my welcome and second Boofer's comments. IMHO, a press using springs or (only) a screw to apply pressure is far LESS desirable than a simple "dutch lever" style press. The reason is that, as soon as the cheese compresses a bit, the pressure applied by the springs or screw changes, so you have to keep adjusting over and over again. With a lever style press, just hang the appropriate amount of weight from the end of the lever and let it press. The lever style press is usually designed to multiply the weight applied (via the mechanical advantage of the lever), so you can get higher press weights. Many folks simply use a gallon jug of water for the weight.

For a very reasonably priced commercial option, check out the Sturdy Press designs here: http://sturdypress.com/ - very elegant, with selectable mechanical advantage ratios.

If you want to make your own press (or have a woodworking friend make it), the basic lever design can, as Boofer says, be as simple as a 2x4 attached to the wall with a hinge, and another 2x4 attached to the first with another hinge. If you want something more compact, I posted plans for a pretty basic lever-style press in post # 11 of the following thread: http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,6509.0.html. The text is that post is wrong, though - it says the design gives a 2:1 mechanical advantage, but actually it is a 3:1. I make no claims whatsoever about the virtues of this design over any other; it was simply what I put together with the materials and tools I had on hand.

Of course, there are all sorts of more complicated options ... if you're a glutton for punishment, you can read through this thread: http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,14493.30.html. At the beginning are pictures and the plans for a rather complex compound-lever press with selectable mechanical advantage from 2:1 all the way to 24:1. Post # 40 in the thread has a simpler version of the design, still with selectable MA but topping out at 8:1. At least one member of the forum has made his version of that design.

Let us know what you wind up with!


Thanks Awakephd  andeveryone for all your advice and input on this.  What I'm hearing is actually the Dutch style is the top design for accurately applied way all the way through overweight might need a little adjustment to keep the arm horizontal.

The Spring design aren't so good but can work and are better if you have a long travel Spring.  And no votes for a pure screw thread press, I'm glad you told with this because I'm going to try and post a picture of the one I was thinking of getting.
I love some of the designs that have been posted, they really are things of beauty

I have my own issues to contend with, one I live in a tiny flat and can't attach anything to a wall.  I'm thinking about trying to rig up a ghetto Dutch press but my real problem is slightly disabled in both arms and can only really lift about 4 lbs.  And then not really above my waist.

I'm really enjoying thinking of weird designs.  I probably will have to go with some sort of Spring design though just because of size and weight issues.  Thanks again for your input much appreciated.

PS below is the one I was looking at, it doesn't have a spring, is it designed for a different sort of cheese making?

Offline awakephd

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James, speaking personally, my reaction to the pictured press is ... yuck. :) I would say that it would be very hard to know how much pressure you are applying, and would need constant attention to keep the pressure consistent over time.

With a lever type that has sufficient mechanical advantage, you don't necessarily have to lift a lot of weight, particularly with a design that lets you add several smaller weights rather than one big weight.

Duntov, the presses I have made were specifically designed to 1) be compact enough to stay on top of my cheese "cave" (i.e., former wine cooler), both for storage and while in use, 2) take advantage of the weights I already have on hand from a generic weight machine, and 3) not require clamping or weighting down the back to offset the weight hanging from the lever. To be sure, the results have not been as compact as a spring-type press, but they have achieved all three objectives. For me it is particularly nice that I can leave the press on top of the "cave" all the time, not having to move it around either to use it or to try to find a place to store it.

If the primary issue with space is more about storage than about use, be sure to look at the second press on the Sturdy Press site. It is ingeniously made to fold up into a compact size for storage. In use, though, it looks to be about the same size as any other lever press, and as designed requires room to hang a jug of water or some such as the weight.

Wattlebloke, you are certainly right that the simplest lever-style press (e.g., a couple of 2x4's and hinges) requires adjustment to keep the plunger vertical ... but there are a lot of still-relatively-simple designs for lever-style presses that constrain the plunger to keep it vertical -- the Sturdy Press being one such design, as well as the first of my designs that I posted earlier. (Actually, the second design that I posted does the best job of all of applying its force vertically ... but that design does NOT count as simple!)

James, one more option you might consider if you have the room for it: http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,8421.msg59142.html#msg59142. Super-elegant in terms of simplicity of design and ease of construction, and as shown the mechanical advantage is adjusted simply by sliding the ram along the lever. You could make this design even more flexible by designing it to hold a weight which could slide along the top beam (like an old-fashioned doctor's scales). This would allow two variable adjustments that multiply for the final MA, potentially allowing a huge range of adjustment of pressure without ever having to change (or lift) the weight. Three potential issues kept me from adopting this design: 1) This press needs to be relatively long to get a sufficient range of adjustment - which means it would not be compact enough to live on my "cave"; 2) Even at the lowest pressure setting, there still would be quite a lot of MA at work, which would mean that the plunger would have very limited amount of vertical movement - potentially requiring a lot of re-adjustment of plunger height especially in the early stages of pressing; and 3) Adjustment of plunger height would be less-than-simple, and there would not be anything to constrain it to vertical movement. Still, I love the elegance of the design, and if I had the space, I'd be sorely tempted to see if there were an easy way to solve the other problems ....
« Last Edit: August 11, 2016, 07:19:13 PM by awakephd »
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