Author Topic: Wine barrels for a cave?  (Read 2232 times)

Wheelsofcheese

  • Guest
Wine barrels for a cave?
« on: August 29, 2016, 01:13:46 AM »
Morning all,

So first question I have been asking since looking to make my own cheese has been how to age. At the moment I live in a unit with little to no sheltered outdoor area and as residents of Brisbane or even visitors of Brisbane are aware it can get really hot and humid (blergh). So with that in mind it leaves the question of how to age cheese without ruining the house (it's a rental).

Coupe of ideas I had thought of;

1) largish cigar humidor, can keep the humidity up but storage is low.

2) wine refrigerator, but that then adds a garish appliance to an already smallish space.

3) which is what I've been wondering: a wine barrel (with hinged door to the interior) along with humidity chips, link below.

Now as far as pros and cons (so far) I have the following and would really like people's input if I'm wrong.

Pro;

- no electricity needed
- potential to absorb some of the aroma of the wine used
- useful as a bench
- generous storage depending on size

Con;

- mould and rot could develop on the inside over time
- smell

There are probably others that I haven't thought of but so far that's all I have.

Looking forward to your thoughts folks. :)

http://www.cigarworld.com.au/aud/products/Humidity-Nano-Beads-Cigar-Humidifier-Round.html

Offline Andrew Marshallsay

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: South Australia
  • Posts: 822
  • Cheeses: 115
  • Default personal text
Re: Wine barrels for a cave?
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2016, 08:01:56 AM »
You may well find that temperature is a bigger issue for you than humidity. For many cheeses you will be aiming for aging at around 13C, although there are some exceptions. That will be a challenge in Brisbane, especially in summer.
For humidity you are looking for about 85% RH for many cheeses ranging up to 90-95% for some, such as washed rind cheeses. This is fairly high so your moist climate could be a good thing.
I use a small bar fridge controlled by an external thermostat. You can buy these through ebay for controlling things such as reptile cages. The internal thermostat in a fridge will only give you temperatures from about 7C down. I find that this works quite well for me. The other thing you need to consider with this is that the humidity inside the fridge will drop, particularly when the compressor is running.
- Andrew

Wheelsofcheese

  • Guest
Re: Wine barrels for a cave?
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2016, 08:19:16 AM »
Evening Raw,

Thanks for that I had a hunch that temperature was going to be a problem. I have looked at some wine fridges where the temp range is much higher but like you said with a Brisbane summer it's a challenge. Probably the biggest worry for me is the increase in electricity usage as in summer it would be running almost all the time to maintain an even temp, even at night which would (among other things) cause excess strain on the unit itself and I'm sad to report that having to repair/replace such a critical (and incredibly expensive) item is not possible. One thing I can say is that having a small apartment with air conditioning I can get the place down in temp while I'm home.

Offline Fritz

  • Mature Cheese
  • ****
  • Location: Toronto
  • Posts: 316
  • Cheeses: 15
  • So many cheeses.... So little time...
Re: Wine barrels for a cave?
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2016, 12:07:48 PM »
Tough call there... A wise one here once said here on the forum " give the cheese what it needs" in other words, if you provide the process and environment... The cheese will succeed. There is not much wiggle room here for deviation. If you are going to get into this hobby, with other than soft cheeses, you will need to find a way to provide what the cheese needs...including a CONSISTANT temperature.

Maybe a friend or family member can hold your wine fridge or external temperature controlled normal fridge (what most of us use) somewhere, in exchange for cheese or otherwise... if you don't have the room.

Wheelsofcheese

  • Guest
Re: Wine barrels for a cave?
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2016, 12:43:23 PM »
Hi Fritz,

I have been doing some research since my last reply. I can get smaller portable air conditioners (think Waeco units). However I will probably look at a wine fridge but either way I have a problem with either humidity or temperature. :P oh the joys.


Offline awakephd

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Posts: 2,351
  • Cheeses: 240
  • compounding the benefits of a free press
Re: Wine barrels for a cave?
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2016, 07:43:48 PM »
Wheels,

Welcome to the forum - this is a great place to get answers, trade ideas, and make cheesy jokes. :)

I would encourage you to focus primarily on temperature rather than humidity. Keep in mind that a small cooling unit, like a wine refrigerator with the proper temperature range, or a small refrigerator with a controller on it, will consume only a very small amount of electricity - far, far less than you will consume by using the A/C. Humidity can be dealt with in several ways:

1) Ultra-low-tech solution # 1: if you are mostly working with semi-hard or hard cheeses, you may be able to more or less ignore humidity. I often do nothing to control humidity in my "cave" (a second-hand wine-cooler with temperature control; cost me all of $100), so it hovers around 50%. When I make a Lancashire or a Gouda or an Asiago or such, I often just let it start aging in the cave, with the rind drying out, for two to three weeks. Then I vacuum-bag the cheese (or you could wax it) - this stops it from drying out further, and in fact the moisture will tend to equalize throughout the cheese so that the rind is no drier than the rest. While very few cheeses are traditionally aged in a sealed condition (e.g., wax), I find that quite a few age just fine this way - even some parmesan / romano types that I've made. One advantage of this approach is that you rarely have to deal with unwanted mold. The greatest danger of this approach is that the surface of the cheese will crack as it dries out, so you may want to add in #2:

2) Ultra-low-tech solution # 2: put a bowl or tray with some water, and hang some cheesecloth from the shelf above so that one end is resting in the water. Using this method will not give you the optimal humidity - I get to about 70% this way - but it does raise the humidity to where you can avoid problems with cracking as the rind dries for most cheeses. And for those where you really do have to have the optimal humidity - especially the camemberts and blues and such - see #3:

3) Ultra-low-tech solution # 3: use ripening boxes - a plastic box or tub with a lid that can be left slightly ajar. You could put some water, or even some KCl brine in the bottom, but I find that the cheese itself exudes enough moisture to keep the RH up as needed. As long as you are seeing moisture beads on the walls / lid of the container, it is good. I use cheapo plastic storage containers from the discount store for my camemberts, and a Tupperware cake-carrier for my large gorgonzolas. These do take up more room in the cave, of course, but with the camemberts, I only keep them in the cave for 7-10 days; once they are well covered with PC fuzz, I wrap them in cheese-ripening paper and put them in the cold fridge; I find the slower ripening gives better results. For my gorgonolas, once they are as blue as I want them to be - usually 6-8 weeks - then I cut them into wedges and vac-bag them (light vacuum); they still continue to develop flavor, but don't continue to blue up. They turn out really well.

4) If none of the above works for you, there is always the high-tech solution - get a mister with a controller. Biggest issue with these, from what I read on this forum, is moisture collecting on the walls of the "cave."

One last comment - I hear you on the space issue. But a small to medium-sized wine fridge will take up no more room than a wine barrel, and the top can serve as a shelf. For me, this has worked great - I keep (and use) my cheese press on the fridge, along with some odds and ends of supplies. I've attached a picture showing this below - this is an old picture, with the first press I made, only a few cheeses in the cave, and the original wavy metal shelves; you can also see a bowl of water in the bottom for a little extra humidity. Since then I've made a new press (as shown in my avatar), changed to wooden shelves, and added quite a few more cheese to the cave. :)
-- Andy

Wheelsofcheese

  • Guest
Re: Wine barrels for a cave?
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2016, 12:55:22 AM »
Hi Awake,

Thank you so much for the help, I did a bit of digging last night for a wine refrigerator - I can pick up a new one relatively cheap (ittttty bitty one) which would do the job. You're right about the space, at the time of writing (and still now) whenever I look at something that would take up space in my apartment it has to be of some use other than obvious so I was trying to look at a way to kill two birds and one stone. :) however I'll be getting a fridge methinks and using the techniques listed to hopefully get some decent cheese.  :) thank you so much once again for the advice.

Offline Gregore

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Santa Barbara
  • Posts: 993
  • Cheeses: 43
  • Default personal text
Re: Wine barrels for a cave?
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2016, 02:26:23 PM »
Just so you know most wine fridges use TEC coolers which only take the fridge temp 15 degrees below room temp a good one might be able to do 20 degrees , but that will be pushing it . So if it is hot where you will have it , go for the real fridge .

Also get it used , it will be less than half price of new  and get it a little bigger than you think you need or at least the biggest you can possibly get away with.  After 6 months of cheese making you will be glad it is bigger.

Eg. If you make cheese every 2 weeks and a cheese takes 4 months to age that is 8 cheeses each one about 6 to 8 inches across and at first they will need to be in plastic containers for moister retention .  that fridge is rather full at only 4 months .  Now som elf those cheeses are bound to be soft so they would have been consumed but you get the point .  Bigger is better

Mine is in a closet if that gives you any ideas of how to hide it.   If the closet is small the door will have to be open a little

Offline awakephd

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Posts: 2,351
  • Cheeses: 240
  • compounding the benefits of a free press
Re: Wine barrels for a cave?
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2016, 07:03:25 PM »
To add to Gregore's point - I specifically looked for a wine fridge that uses a compressor. As Gregore says, the small size pretty much always use the TEC tech (I'd say "no pun intended," but no one would believe me), but many of the mid-size ones as shown in my picture use a compressor. No idea what availability is like in Brisbane, but in this area, I found several possibilities within a week of searching on Craigslist. Note that even though the wine fridge shown uses a compressor, it does not use a fan - it cools the back wall, and that cools the space with natural convection. This helps a bit with maintaining a more consistent humidity. You could get the same effect using a dorm-room sized fridge with a controller - around here, you can get a cheap dorm room fridge for < $100 brand new at the discount store - but again, don't know how that compares to what is available down under.
-- Andy