Author Topic: Camembert - first attempt anxiety  (Read 2379 times)

Offline Lloyd

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Camembert - first attempt anxiety
« on: September 01, 2016, 12:36:14 PM »
Made my first Camemberts on Tuesday, and just want to make sure that I'm not making any fundamental errors.

I left them in the moulds over night.  Next morning out of moulds, salted them and put them in plastic containers with racks, put the lids on, and put them in my 'cave' at about 12 degrees. However they seem very wet on their surfaces.  Was I right to put the lids on straightaway, or should I have left them out for longer?  I'm draining the containers daily and turning them - is this correct?

Thanks

Offline Fritz

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Re: Camembert - first attempt anxiety
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2016, 08:40:58 PM »
Hi Lloyd. Sounds like you are off to a great start.
The cams love their moist environment especially during the draining phase after salting. The high moisture content provides the milk sugar (lactose) used by the starter culture to acidify the curd. Look for a 4.6 to 4.7 pH. The proper salt amount is important... Weigh all your cams out of the mould and multiply by 2 % use that amount to distribute among your newly formed cams by rubbing the surfaces. Sides less important than the top and bottom surface. It's after the salting that they need to dry out a bit... Good air movement and daily flipping should dry the cams enough to start the white molds. I hold my cams at 60* first days then drop to 50-55* after salting. Lots of good humidity like 90% or better until the mold grows..again flipping daily using gloves... They are susceptible to finger contamination... After say 5 days ..Pat down the white fuzz and then wrap them in two sided cheese paper... Back into the maturing box again with lots of air inside, and set at 38* (top shelf or coldest part of your normal fridge... Open the box daily for a few minutes to exchange the air for fresh ...or ammonia may build up inside especially as it's getting closer to done in about 5-6 weeks. Take one out after 5 weeks and leave out overnight... Open it up and see how far along it is... Cut into it if need be. Needs more? Put back in and try again in a few days. Unfortunately, cams don't last long ... Prime time for them is short... Go big and invite some friends over to move them along....  Enjoy!

PS ...hint/tip: thickness of the final settled curds are important ... Too thick, it will take forever for the curds to soften and the rind overdevelopes while waiting....too thin ... Ripens early and has a pancake look to it... Practice make perfect, you'll see what I mean ... Keep good records to master this cheese.

To serve, leave out overnight, put back in fridge, take out and unwrap 1 hr before.

Hope that helps :)
F
« Last Edit: September 01, 2016, 08:50:41 PM by Fritz »

Offline awakephd

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Re: Camembert - first attempt anxiety
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2016, 09:45:01 AM »
Agreed - sounds like you are off to a good start. My approach is similar to Fritz's, but a bit different at a couple of points:

I let the cams drain in the molds for 12-24 hours, covered lightly with a piece of cheesecloth just in case there are any stray flies or such around. After that I salt one side with half the salt, again covering with cheesecloth, and let it sit for 12 hours or so. Up to this point they have been at room temperature.

I flip and salt the other side and put them in ripening containers - cheap plastic food storage containers with some plastic "eggcrate" on the bottom, followed by some plastic mesh, then the cheese. At this point I move them to the "cave" at approximately 55°F / 13°C; the surfaces are still distinctly moist.

I open the boxes and flip them every 24 hours, wiping out any excess moisture. The cheese should be quite moist, but not actually wet. Within a day or so they start to feel a bit slimy as the geo begins to develop. Within another day or two, the PC begins to develop. I don't bother with gloves, but I do wash my hands thoroughly before handling them.

After a week or so, when the cheese is well covered with PC, I take them out of the ripening boxes and wrap them in cheese ripening paper, then move them to my kitchen refrigerator (approximately 36°F / 2°C) to finish ripening slowly.

Here is the biggest difference from Fritz's approach - once they are in the paper, I do not put them back into a ripening box. In my experience, the cheese paper maintains a good moisture balance while allowing gas exchange (oxygen / ammonia). Alternately, I have ripened them in the kitchen fridge in ripening boxes but without the paper - both approaches work equally well for me, but using the paper and not the boxes saves space in the fridge, and wrapping them makes them much easier to handle as they continue to develop.

For the next 4-5 weeks as they ripen in the fridge, I flip them daily. By about the 4th week from the start of the make, they start to feel increasingly squishy at the edges. When they feel fairly squishy in the middle, generally after 5-6 weeks from the start of the make, I start eating them. At this point, the first one I open will still a bit of a "core" that is not fully ripened, but the taste is fantastic. As Fritz says, the optimal window is fairly narrow - within another week or so, the rest of the cheeses are ripened more or less all the way through.

As you can see, part of the fun of this hobby is that each of us develops our own technique - learning from each other, trying new ideas, seeing what works best in our circumstances. Enjoy the journey -- and the reward at the end of 5-6 weeks is fabulous!
-- Andy

Offline Lloyd

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Re: Camembert - first attempt anxiety
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2016, 09:59:33 AM »
Thank you both for your assistance and reassurance. I've been patient, and this morning I think I see the start of a white bloom on the edges.  I'l let you know how I get on in a few weeks time.

Lloyd

Offline Fritz

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Re: Camembert - first attempt anxiety
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2016, 01:44:49 PM »
Great news..... Pictures, or it didn't happen ;)

F

Offline Lloyd

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Re: Camembert - first attempt anxiety
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2016, 06:44:11 PM »
Ok.  Here they are just after coming out of the moulds.  They have shrunk considerably since then, and I suspect they are really too short now compared to their diameters.  (All different shapes and sizes as I don't have the correct moulds yet.) 

The white bloom is too subtle at the moment to be picked up by the camera, so will post photos when it develops more.


Offline Fritz

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Re: Camembert - first attempt anxiety
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2016, 08:37:29 PM »
Very nice ! A cheese for your efforts :)

The right ones look balanced .. The front left one looks a bit tall. No worries... You will cut into those in 5-6 weeks and they will be fine and taste delicious ... Why? Because you made them with love.

Offline Lloyd

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Re: Camembert - first attempt anxiety
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2016, 09:37:58 AM »
Cheers for the cheese  :).

Well these have turned into little stinkers.  I think they have developed slip skin, and if I'm interpreting other posts correctly, lots of gc development with little pc.  I suspect they were too wet (maybe I should have kept the plastic boxes cracked open?), and perhaps I was heavy handed with the gc.

All good experience, and I'll keep nurturing these and see how they turn out.  Currently soft around the edges and still firm in the middle.  Photos from a couple of days ago.

Offline Fritz

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Re: Camembert - first attempt anxiety
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2016, 03:01:09 PM »
lol... little stinkers :)
Wow, they certainly flattened out!
Maybe post your recipe.. lets see how much PC and Geo you added to what type and volume of milk...and temp? Lets see if we can figure this out.

Offline Lloyd

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Re: Camembert - first attempt anxiety
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2016, 06:06:42 PM »
Here is the basic recipe.  It was an evening make, so probably only 10 hours between putting into moulds and salting.

2.5l full fat pasteurised milk.  Heated to 32°C
Culture added plus 1/64 tsp pc and 1/128 tsp geo. (And that is possibly the problem. With the relatively small quantity of milk - note to self, buy a bigger saucepan - the amount of geo is tiny, so doubt this can be very accurate.)
Left for 90mins at 32°C
Added 1/8 tsp rennet.
Left for approx 60 mins until clean break, and then cut into 1/2" cubes.  Left for 15mins, siring occasionally.
Into moulds. Left overnight, turning occasionally when I could.
Salted all surfaces (foolishly did not note the quantity).
Into ripening boxes with lids shut and into warm (12°C) fridge.
Turn daily and dry out ripening boxes.

Offline Lloyd

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Re: Camembert - first attempt anxiety
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2016, 04:36:15 PM »
Well one of the cheeses seemed to show significant improvement, gradually developing a nice white bloom, and getting softer. Smells have also diminished somewhat.  So three weeks and a day after production, I decided to leave out of a couple of hours and then cut it open.  I have to say I was very pleasantly surprised.  Nice and runny all the way to the centre, with a lovely flavour. Just a shame it was so flat and thin.

Next batch I'm going to make sure that the curds drain sufficiently, and then be careful that the humidity is not too high.  I 'm sure that they were the causes of the slip skin.