Author Topic: bitterness  (Read 1798 times)

reg

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bitterness
« on: September 23, 2016, 12:05:24 PM »
I noticed the last Asiago I made has a slight bitter note at the end. I have read that could be from to much rennet but I use 1/2 t per 4 litres of milk. Anyone else noticed that in their cheese ?

Kern

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Re: bitterness
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2016, 05:56:17 PM »
I just consulted several of my hard cheese recipes and note that I use 3/4 tsp of single strength veal rennet in 6 gallons of milk.  At 1/2 tsp per four liters your dosage equates to about 2.85 tsp per six gallons (if my math is correct).  This is 3.8 times my usage rate. 

I'd say that overuse of rennet is quite possibly the source of the bitterness you see.

Offline awakephd

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Re: bitterness
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2016, 06:17:24 PM »
Agreed! (By the way, Kern, nice to see you - I don't think I've seen you post for a while!)

Kern's figures match mine - I nearly always use 1/2 tsp of single-strength calf rennet per 4 gallons of milk. The only exception is for a parma-type make, which goes up to 3/4 tsp of rennet for 4 gallons of milk. (This make uses little or no ripening time and short flocculation time, so needs the extra rennet -- and as I understand it, the high heat used in the cooking stage destroys most of the enzymes from the rennet.)

If you are using vegetable rennet, that is generally double-strength, so you'd be using about 8x as much rennet as most recipes call for!
-- Andy

reg

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Re: bitterness
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2016, 02:51:39 PM »
Thanks for the quick reply guys but I made a mistake saying 4 litres when in fact it is 4 gallons. I use four bags that are 3.79 litres per bag. The label on the bottle says to use 3/4 tsp per 13 - 15 litres, the product is Danisco coagulant 300 IMCU.

Clean break was at 55 minutes and the high heat was 118*. The cheese has pretty good taste and nice pliable but firm body but this tiny bit if bitterness at the end


Offline awakephd

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Re: bitterness
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2016, 08:11:57 PM »
Reg, you have ruined a perfectly plausible theory with inconvenient facts. :( Unless you are using vegetable (2x) rennet, 1/2 tsp per 4 gallons sounds right on the money.

What type of rennet did you use? (I know you gave the brand, but do you know if it is animal, vegetable, or microbial?) How old was it?

Anything different about the milk you used?
-- Andy

reg

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Re: bitterness
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2016, 03:46:04 PM »
Hi Andy, it is calf rennet, regular strength and was a new bottle. I thought that the amount was correct and is generally what I use for semi hard cheese.

I'm starting to think it may have picked up the bitterness from another cheese that was in the curing chamber, a new cheese I tried last year that used mycodore as a secondary culture.

Sailor Con Queso

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Re: bitterness
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2016, 07:50:11 PM »
Residual whey.

reg

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Re: bitterness
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2016, 11:58:17 AM »
Thanks Ed, something I would never have considered. I guess I have some work to do to get this sorted out before I start making cheese again in a few weeks.

Offline awakephd

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Re: bitterness
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2016, 01:43:38 PM »
Ah, that is an issue I would not have thought of. Sailor, would something like this be a matter of improper draining - e.g., maybe pressed too much too soon, trapping whey inside - or more a matter of not having stirred/cooked sufficiently?
-- Andy

Sailor Con Queso

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Re: bitterness
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2016, 06:54:50 PM »
Most likely causes:

Not cutting the curds small enough - should be the size of a rice grain. Use a whisk.
Under cooking - could be temperature or time, or both.
Inadequate stirring. Stirring promotes syneresis (expelling whey from the curds). Clumping traps whey.
Inadequate drainage prior to hooping. Don't rush.
Draining longer also gives the bacteria time to develop more acid. Lower pH means drier and crumblier.
Pressing too hard initially. Asiago is a thermo cheese, so it doesn't take much for the curds to fuse.
Press longer not harder.
If you used Lipase, you might have used too much. Lipase is an enzyme so a little goes a long way.
Aging longer will often eliminate bitter notes.

Asiago is typically produced in 3 variations - young, medium, and aged. If you want a softer, milder Asiago, try washing the curds a little.

I have some 2-1/2 year old Asiago right now that is to die for. ;)

reg

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Re: bitterness
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2016, 12:15:04 PM »
Very helpful Ed, thank you. I may not have cut the curds small enough and I did use 1/8 t lipase so I may cut that down a bit. I would like to concentrate on this particular cheese this year making a few different versions, I love smoked olives so I will be giving that a go for sure