Author Topic: Brie #3 Overheated a little  (Read 2970 times)

AeonSam

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Brie #3 Overheated a little
« on: October 23, 2016, 02:11:00 PM »
Hello,

I made my 3rd batch of Brie last night and I overshot the target temp. It was supposed to be 94F but it went up to 99F. I'm at the point where I normally salt the wheels but the ph is stuck at 5.6 for the past 2 hours. I need to get to 4.6-4.7 and I'm wondering if it's not going to happen because I overcooked these?

I'm trying this recipe with Flora Danica this time as opposed to MA 4002

Sam

Offline awakephd

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Re: Brie #3 Overheated a little
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2016, 02:42:24 PM »
Sam,

How long has it been since you began draining the cheese? How warm is it in the area where the cheese is draining?
-- Andy

AeonSam

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Re: Brie #3 Overheated a little
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2016, 02:53:46 PM »
It's been draining since 11pm last night. I flipped it at 5am then 8 then 10 so it would be 12 hours now. It's about 76F in the house at the moment.

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Re: Brie #3 Overheated a little
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2016, 10:03:22 PM »
Hmm ... you've posed a mystery. I wouldn't expect the 99° to be a problem in terms of killing off the bacteria - mesophilic can generally go up to 105° or more. And I would expect the curd to continue to acidify, even at 76°. The fact that you got down to pH of 5.6 would seem to indicate that the bacterial was active.

You haven't salted them, by any chance? Have you double-checked the calibration on your meter, and make sure the electrode is clean? With the Extech 100 that I use, I find testing the pH of bries or cams to be harder than just about any other cheese -- it seems to be difficult to get a good contact across the whole electrode. So I sometimes get quite variable readings unless I'm really, really careful.

Assuming no salt and calibrated pH meter, my best suggestion would be to try to create a somewhat warmer environment and let them go another 12 hours - put them over a pan of warm water, for example. If that still doesn't work ... I'd probably just forge ahead, and see what happens.
-- Andy

AeonSam

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Re: Brie #3 Overheated a little
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2016, 11:59:42 PM »
Thanks Andy,

I hadn't salted at the time of my last post. I eventually got down to 4.7 but it was really late in the afternoon. I tasted the whey from these wheels and it tasted pretty strange to me. I'm using a real cheap Hannah ph meter and I don't have direct contact with the cheese because the hannah probe is sitting inside a chamber that's hard to get at so the best I can do is take the whey and read it.

Should I do otherwise? Do you use your meter directly on the cheese?

I finally put these in the fridge but I'm real uncertain about how they will turn out. We will see!

Sam

Offline Gregore

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Re: Brie #3 Overheated a little
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2016, 05:35:40 AM »
For sure the 99 f did no harm to the culture , it may effect the curds moisture content but that is all .

Not sure why it took so long to drop but I would suspect the meter  was acting up  and it actually was dropping in ph .

when you got your flora Danica did you roller pin the package to crush the culture ?  This product tends to not be well mixed and comes with largish granules .

Not doing this could lead to some issues

AeonSam

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Re: Brie #3 Overheated a little
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2016, 12:36:28 PM »
Gregore,

I didn't know about rolling the Flora Danica. It does seem to be very clumpy. Thanks for letting me know about that. I will definitely do that now.

Does that mean the culture will not be evenly dispersed?

Sam

Offline awakephd

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Re: Brie #3 Overheated a little
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2016, 09:20:28 PM »
Sam, glad to hear that you got to 4.7 - but if you were measuring the whey, your curd may have gotten there first. (That won't hurt anything with regard to this make.) In general, the pH of the whey is going to be a little higher than the pH of the curd - maybe by .2 or .3, I've forgotten exactly how much. But I'm guessing there may come a point when both the curd and the whey reach "the bottom" - in other words, while the whey might lag .2 or .3 behind the curd, I'm thinking they may both bottom out at the same pH after sufficient time. I don't know if this is true; just my guess.

When I make a camembrie -- that's what I'm calling it, since it is half-way between the size of a camembert and a brie! -- I generally let them go 24 hours before salting. It sounds like that's what you wound up with, so I'd say you are on track.

The large granules of FD can be harder to dissolve, but they are also harder to measure. I crush my FD before use, as Gregore suggests, and I suspect this means that I am getting more FD per measured volume than would otherwise be true. That may be a factor in how slow or fast the acidification occurs.
-- Andy

SOSEATTLE

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Re: Brie #3 Overheated a little
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2016, 01:20:46 AM »
I believe that Flora Danica is a relatively slow acidifier compared with most others. It is often used in combination with another culture rather than by itself to speed up acidification.

Also, regarding the clumpiness of the culture, I asked the manufacturer in the past about that and if crushing it was advised. The manufacturer themselves indicated that crushing/rolling is not necessary.


Susan

AeonSam

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Re: Brie #3 Overheated a little
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2016, 04:31:24 PM »
Thanks Andy,

Here's a pic of my pH meter. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to make direct contact to the cheese with this thing. I never tried because I assumed that I would tear up the wheel once it became solid. I can try it with the curd that's not solidified though.

Do you have any suggestions for a better meter that isn't ludicrously expensive?

Thanks Susan,  I'm not familiar enough with FD to have realized the potential issues that come with it.

Sam

Offline awakephd

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Re: Brie #3 Overheated a little
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2016, 09:14:26 PM »
Yep, that looks like it would guarantee some odd-shaped holes in the cheese if you apply it directly. However, it does say it is water proof, so I suppose you could press it in and see what sort of reading you get. Cleaning it, though, may be an issue.

There are a couple of other options that you might want to consider. I (and many others here) use the Extech 100, which runs around $100. It has basically a 1/2" diameter flat-tipped electrode; this does need to be pressed firmly against the curd, so if it is soft, it will sink in a bit, leaving a dimple. I don't worry about that if I anticipate additional flipping and pressing, but it is an issue if the cheese is at the end of its acidifying.

Another option would be something like the Hannah bluetooth meter, around $200. This has more of a pointed probe, so it is going to push into the curd -- leaving a small hole but not a large dimple, like the Extech. Those who use them seem to find the Hannah meters superb, but I have no first-hand experience with them.
-- Andy

AeonSam

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Re: Brie #3 Overheated a little
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2016, 01:54:19 PM »
That Bluetooth Hannah meter looks pretty cool - especially with the program it links too. I will have to save up and get that one.

Thanks for the info.

Sam

Offline Danbo

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Re: Brie #3 Overheated a little
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2016, 05:11:12 PM »
I made bries yesterday and I experienced the same lack of drop in PH.

After 12 hours of draining the whey was at 5,99. I salted them at that PH-level because I had to go to work.

I have just meassured some excess whey now - 12 hours later and it was PH 4.9.

I think that the curd was simply cooked too long (at the right temperature) as the curds seems to be top firm and didn't knit properly.

I'm not sure that they will develop right and ever be soft... Well we'll see...

Should I be concerned about nasty things developing in the cheeses because of the PH problems?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 05:16:39 PM by Danbo »

Offline awakephd

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Re: Brie #3 Overheated a little
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2016, 08:12:07 PM »
Danbo, I would not have salted at 12 hours. No reason you can't wait 24 hours before salting.

In my experience, this type of cheese (brie, camembert, etc.) will not have a smooth rind; since it is not pressed, the curds just knit "as they are," rather than closing all the holes. But also in my experience, this does not matter in the least.

I don't know exactly what effect the over-cooking may have, but don't forget that the softness of the cheese primarily derives from the pH-raising action of the PC. With regard to salting before the pH really dropped, though, I would wonder if that might mess up the process ... but again, I'm not sure.

Here's hoping that, in a few weeks, you will report back a successful result ... or at least that you will help educate all of us by way of a not-what-you-expected-but-still-edible result!
 
-- Andy

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Re: Brie #3 Overheated a little
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2016, 08:38:03 PM »
Thanks for the comments... Let's hope that it will be cheese in the end... :-)