Author Topic: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems  (Read 3356 times)

Offline AeonSam

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Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« on: November 06, 2016, 08:40:24 AM »
Hello,

I've recently switched over to using French Calf Rennet and I'm having difficulty with extremely firm curds. I've been reducing the amount used even though I'm within the perimeters set on the bottle for dosage amounts.

I just have no particular rationale for how much I scale down. Does anyone out there know if there is a particular conversion?

I was using Caldwell's recipe for Brie which was 3/8ths tsp for 3 Gallons of milk. I

It's hard to see but it's instructions say dilute up to 1/2 tsps into 2 tbsps of water per Gallon or 4 Liters

Thanks, Sam
« Last Edit: November 06, 2016, 01:12:50 PM by AeonSam »

Online Al Lewis

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2016, 09:11:03 AM »
There is a good possibility your "French" rennet is FPC-Fermentation Produced Chymosin Rennet, the same used in the American cheese industry.  Although banned for use in European "GMO Free" countries it, and cheeses made from it, can be exported to the US.  I will refer to the cheese professionals on here but do suspect you may be using a very strong industrial rennet.
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Offline AeonSam

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2016, 10:32:55 AM »
Thanks Al,

I'm pretty new to the forum and don't know who the Professionals are or the proper etiquette. Do I wait until one of them responds?

I bought the rennet from Artisan Geek and the owner gets a lot of imports from other countries.

Thanks, Sam

Offline awakephd

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2016, 02:18:41 PM »
Al, unless the bottle is just completely mislabeled, I don't think this can be the GMO rennet - it clearly states that it is calf rennet, and that it is single-strength.

Interestingly, I just got a new bottle of rennet from the same supplier ... but this bottle contains a very light colored, almost clear liquid. I've never seen animal rennet that wasn't a light brown color. Could this indicate that what I have isn't what it should be??
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Offline AeonSam

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2016, 02:36:25 PM »
Andy,

All of my other "Animal Rennet" bottles are light brown to almost clear. This is the first time that I've seen rennet this dark. Yoav, the owner of Artisan Geek is difficult to reach these days because he's started his own creamery. I've written to him but as I said - he's now hard to reach.

I don't want to call him directly just to ask little questions.

Sam

Online Gregore

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2016, 09:28:35 PM »
Yoav is usually easy enough to get ahold of . And when I have phoned has been more than happy to help even with simple questions.

I would be very shocked if it was not exactly what was stated on the label and on his website

What issues are the firm curds causing you , usually most suffer from the opposite curds that shatter ?


How long is the floc time when you make your cheese ?

Offline scasnerkay

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2016, 12:00:40 AM »
Have you been using the spinning bowl test for flocculation? I do find this very helpful. I like trying different rennets. Sometimes, vegetarian rennet, sometimes standard calf rennet, sometimes liquid paste rennet. If I did not test flocculation, I would have no idea when to cut.
The cow's milk I am using presently seems to set much faster than the previous cow's milk. Same thing, I would not know when to cut if I did not use the spinning bowl. I had to keep cutting back the rennet amount to get the range more like 10 to 12 minutes for flocculation.
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Offline AnnDee

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2016, 01:09:11 AM »
I second Gregore, Yoav is quite happy to help. He was a little busy last month because of his move but I think all back to normal now.
Ann

Offline AeonSam

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2016, 06:17:35 AM »
Thanks for all of the answers everyone.

Gregore, I was judging by email correspondence only I guess. I was accustomed to a day or two by email. I have an initial concern that I'm imposing on a very busy guy when I call but I will go ahead. The curds are way more firm than I'm used to. I think I'm thrown off because it seems to have a dramatically different effect than the standard Rennet that I use. Thanks

Susan, I have been using the spinning bowl method. The directions say to use "up to 1/2" which is a little vague for me since I'm brand new at cheese-making. I would just like to fully understand the chemistry so that I can at least have a solid rationale for the usage.

Thanks Ann, I will try Yoav on the phone.

Sam

Offline awakephd

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2016, 08:53:33 AM »
Sam, one word of clarification/caution - consider the 1/2 tsp per gallon as the absolute maximum that you would ever use. But normally you will use much less. One might suppose that using more rennet is better -- firmer curds, quicker flocculation, just adjust the time to suit -- but the problem is, the rennet leaves enzymes behind that also influence the taste of the cheese. Too much rennet can develop a bitter taste as the cheese ages.

Thus, the "sweet spot" is to use just enough rennet to achieve flocculation in 10-12 minutes. As a comparison, for many of the cheeses I make, I use 1/2 tsp of rennet (at least of the rennet I've been using - the calf rennet from ArtisanGeek) for nearly 4 gallons of milk -- in other words, only about 1/4 as much as the maximum on the label.

However, when I make parmesan or similar types -- little ripening time, short flocculation, cooked to high heat -- I use 3/4 tsp for ~4 gallons of milk. The short ripening time (higher pH) and short flocculation benefit from the extra rennet, and meanwhile the high heat will destroy some (most?) of the enzymes from the rennet, preventing the bitterness from developing. Or at least, that's my understanding ... and it seems to be working for me! :)
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Offline AeonSam

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2016, 09:04:18 AM »
Sam, one word of clarification/caution - consider the 1/2 tsp per gallon as the absolute maximum that you would ever use. But normally you will use much less. One might suppose that using more rennet is better -- firmer curds, quicker flocculation, just adjust the time to suit -- but the problem is, the rennet leaves enzymes behind that also influence the taste of the cheese. Too much rennet can develop a bitter taste as the cheese ages.

Thus, the "sweet spot" is to use just enough rennet to achieve flocculation in 10-12 minutes. As a comparison, for many of the cheeses I make, I use 1/2 tsp of rennet (at least of the rennet I've been using - the calf rennet from ArtisanGeek) for nearly 4 gallons of milk -- in other words, only about 1/4 as much as the maximum on the label.


Thanks Andy, that's what I'm trying to determine. I have a recipe for a "scant 3/8ths" for 3 gallons of milk. I had read another thread about IMCU numbers being used to determine the amount per gallon but it's all cryptic to me at the moment.  I just know the regular animal rennet I use, doesn't cause the floc time to be so rapid, but I'm still new so I may be misunderstanding.

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2016, 01:31:58 AM »
If your floc Time is in the 10 to 15 minute range then you are using the correct amount for that milk.

you might just be used to a rennet that did not give firm enough curds and are now thinking the good curds are somehow wrong.

Hope that makes sense.

Offline AeonSam

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2016, 05:15:25 AM »
If your floc Time is in the 10 to 15 minute range then you are using the correct amount for that milk.

Thanks Gregore...so if It takes 13 minutes and I have a floc multiplier of 6 that would leave me at 78 minutes or 1 hour and 18 minutes correct? I'm confused when this recipe says it should only take 35 minutes between rennet and cutting.

Sam

Offline Anneliese

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2016, 12:42:45 PM »
Hi Sam, I cannot be sure the company I work for uses the same rennet as you, but it is an identical dark brown/amber color.


 As for a ratio we use, its 50ml to 500L of milk, or 1:10 000 As you see, a much lower ratio than your bottle recommends.


 I'll note down our label details tomorrow and get back to you so we can compare.
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Offline AeonSam

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2016, 04:32:05 PM »
Thanks Annelies,

I look forward to hearing about it

Sam