Author Topic: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems  (Read 13623 times)

Offline Gregore

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2016, 01:04:30 AM »
A 12 minute floc is good ,but that 6 times multiplier seems a little high to me  , I have yet to see a recipe for a cheese that has that high of a multiplier , though I do not make that many types of cheeses .

But I think a Brie / cam is usually no higher than 4 to 4.5

Let's see what other think about that 6

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2016, 10:05:46 AM »
Gregore,

It's from Mastering Artisan Cheese's brie recipe. I will be interested in hearing as well.

Sam

Offline Danbo

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2016, 03:42:59 PM »
I use Bioren rennet (https://www.hundsbichler.com/php/download-47_7a60dab81b15321c531e876f05a8d25f_21_en.html). The strength should be around 15000.

I have to use around 10 ml per 24 liters of milk to get a floc. time of 12 minutes.

I dillute in water etc. but ai still have to use relatively high amounts. The bottle says 18-24 ml per 100 liters of milk.

The rennet is fresh and the milk is not homogenized.

Am I doing something wrong here? I have always used 6-10 ml for a 24 liter batch...

Offline awakephd

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2016, 07:07:49 PM »
Danbo, that does sound like a lot of rennet, at least compared to what I am used to using - 2.5 - 3.75 ml for around 16 liters of milk (which would work out to about the ratio called for on the bottle).

Key question: are the cheeses coming out bitter, especially after extended aging?
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Offline Danbo

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2016, 08:50:59 PM »
At least some of the mature cheeses were bitter due to rennet.

Maybe I'm doing the spinning bowl test wrong. I use a very light plastic bowl that does not sink in the milk (just float on the surface). If that is the problem then I don't detct the first sign of floc. because the bowl does not have sufficient friction against the milk.

Maybe the floc. actually happens a lot sooner than I think...?

Offline Gregore

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2016, 04:09:56 AM »
If you think that your plastic bowl is too heavy to give an accurate floc test try using a plastic bottle cap.

When it stops spinning or skittering across surface it will also leave a light impression  in the milk/ curd when lifted

Offline Danbo

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2016, 06:10:42 AM »
I already use a very light plastic bowl now. I just thought that it might have been too light. According to your post that does not seem to be a problem...

Maybe it is the milk quality. I have tried different types and I'm very focused on buying the best possible quality.

Or the temperature - but my thermometer is certified precise down to 0.2 C.

Offline Danbo

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2016, 06:25:04 AM »
I use a small amount of Chlorine (bleach) for desinfecting all my equipment and the kitchen. I am aware that bleach can affect the rennet function but I only use very small amounts.

I do not flush all the equipment after having used the weak bleach solution (just left to air dry) so there might be very small traces of bleach left in the pot etc. I assume that just using tap water (that hasn't been boiled first) in the cheese process or for flushing equipment is not the best idea...

Chlorine is not added to the tapwater where I live.

Boiling all the equipment is not an option as I use square pans and can't heat it up to the point of boiling. I have used StarSan in the past but I can't remember if I experienced the same problem back then.

Any suggestions are welcome...

Offline awakephd

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2016, 04:35:23 PM »
Is the milk you are using pasteurized and/or homogenized? If so, it may be that the floc test just isn't very reliable for you. At least, that has been my experience - with very little access to anything other than store-bought, pasteurized & homogenized milk, I got so frustrated trying to decide exactly when the milk had flocced, because it never seemed to be a very clear and distinct event, and no matter which part of that very unclear event I used, I seemed to get ridiculous answers that didn't seem to translate into actual results as far as the time needed for a clean break. I kept thinking I must be doing it all wrong ... but every description of the process told me I was doing it right ... except it just didn't work.

Then I had the opportunity to use some raw milk. Actually, not even truly raw - I low-temp pasteurized it, and I mixed it half and half with some store bought P&H milk, since I only had a couple of gallons of the raw milk, and I normally make 4-gallon batches of cheese. But even with all of this, the difference was absolutely startling. This time, I had a very clear and distinct flocc, and the time made sense.

Others here seem to have more success with using the flocc method even with P&H milk, so YMMV. Maybe their milk is less pasteurized, or some other difference ... but I came to the conclusion that, with the P&H milk available here, it is not worth trying to use the flocc test. Now I just go by time and clean break test ... and it seems to work out reasonably well for me. Of course, if I can ever arrange a steady supply of raw milk, I will start using the flocc method again!
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Offline Danbo

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2016, 08:39:58 PM »
I think that you're right. I really want to use some low temperature treated milk but it's not really an option.

I use nonhomogenized pasteurized organic milk. I usually use wholemilk that has not been standardized regarding fat. It is usually around 4.1% (dependig on the season).

I would love to use organic Demeter low temperature treated milk from grass/hay fed cows that has not been fat standardized... I am actually trying to find a way to get this milk but it is not easy...

Offline Gregore

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2016, 03:47:27 AM »
Danbo
 I have a few questions to clarify

Is this a new rennet you are using or one that you have always used ?

Your floc time is correct   And you are thinking that you are using too much rennet for the amount of milk to get this floc time , is this correct?  Or just that you are using more than the bottle states , and that is your worry ?

You mention using 6 and10 ml ? As one is almost double the other  what is your floc time at 6 ml and what is it at 10 ml ?

If it was me  and I had issues with my rennet I would try a new rennet and see if that  changes anything .

Offline Danbo

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2016, 05:54:24 AM »
I have used different types of rennet in the past including calf and goat rennet paste. I have always had to use a bit more than the recipes normally suggests to obtain a resanable floc time.

I get a floc around 14 minutes if using 10 ml for 24 liters of milk. The range according to the bottle is around 4.5-6 ml. If I use only 6 ml I get a floc time close to 20 mins.

I'm worried that the cheese will have a bitter taste because I use more rennet than the bottle suggests.

I have some rennet tablets that I will try the next time. I will just follow the directions and see what my floc time will be in that case.

Thanks for the advice. :-)

Offline Danbo

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2016, 12:23:03 PM »
Tried a new 24 liter batch with rennet tablets (1,25 tablet as stated on the pack)...

Floc. time 33 minutes!!! I am so tired of this. Even tried a new milk brand.

All equipment was sanitized in chlorine and flushed with boiling water.

Just can't figure out what's wrong.

The recipe says 40 minutes for the curd to develop (gouda). If I use a floc. factor of 3 then it would be 1 hour and 39 minutes - not exactly optimal...

I think in this case I would try cutting after 1 hr 10 mins as a compromise.

What to do? :(

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2016, 01:45:35 PM »
To me that is a lot of rennet. I use 1 tablet of 36 liters batch and floc time around 9 minutes. I use raw milk.
Do you put cacl? Too much cacl for some reason resulting longer floc time too.

Offline Danbo

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Re: Liquid Animal Rennet VS French Calf Rennet problems
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2016, 03:22:27 PM »
Raw untreated milk seems so much better...

Last time I didn't use CaCl. This time I did.

I had a good cut after 1 hr 10 min. Actually the curd came out reasonably OK I think...