Tomme Cheese Making Recipe

[Brentsbox]

iratherfly,  if I was to try it, would you make the brine a 100% saturation or what do you think?  Im curious about the vinegar idea too.

[FRANCOIS]

I used to wash small rounds (about 200g camembert size) in ale but kept them in a dry environment and the resulsts were excellent.  It didn't allow the yeast to take off but kept the beer flavour.  Very hard to do, but customers kept asking for the cheese, so it was worth it.  The dry enviroment gave them an exellent crust, but it was a pain.  I had to wash them twice a day.  I left the wheels to crust after draining for a good week or two before starting the wash.  This probably wouldn't work for a tomme because you need a different environment to age it.

[linuxboy]

Linuxboy/Francois - do you think that adding vinegar to the beer brine will kill the yeast due to the pH level drop?

No, yeast is remarkably resilient. Vinegar doesn't have enough umph, it can only lower the pH to 3ish.

[iratherfly]

Brentsbox, yes. By 100% I suppose you mean fully saturated brine which is about 18% salt by weight. (or 4.5 parts liquid to 1 part salt. Do it by weight so it's more accurate than by volume). Remember that your beer already has a bit of salt in it but it's not too much. If you have a salometer than you can check the total salt level. Salometer/salimeter is a salinity meter - it's a glass tube that you drop in the brine and it floats like a buoy. The number that is exposed at the water level is your salt %).

If you don't use it, you  may dilute off the rind you have just created with the first brining. Should you reduce the salt levels too much, you will also remove flavor and moreover - expose the cheese to mathogens that love slightly salty environment but can't survive the very salty ones.

Adding simple vinegar (AKA Synthetic Vinegar or Acetic Acid) is just a way to change the pH level so that it fits the cheese. It is not meant for direct bacterial or flavoring action.  I add a bit of vinegar until I get a good 5.5pH (I can't tell you the quantities because I've never done it with beer, but if you don't have a pH meter I would guess half a teaspoon per quart? - Francois/Linuxboy, what do you think?)

Also add 1/8 tsp CalCl2 per quart to prevent further weakening and dilution of calcium from the cheese.

[FRANCOIS]

I prefer whey in brine if at all possible.  Otherwise citric acid is choice #2, followed by vinegar.

[Brentsbox]

Iratherfly,   thanks for clarifying that.  I think I have a better handle on the brine now.  Some recipes have seemed to have way too much salt in them.  Im going to through out my brine today and make some new with the ratios you prescribed.  ( "I rather fly"... just figured that one out.  lol )

Francois,  When you add whey to your brine, how much do you add?  The brine I have been using has been 1/2 whey and 1/2 water with salt.  I dont have a PH meter yet, or even some PH paper for that mater, so i have had to wing it thus far.

[FRANCOIS]

100% whey if you can otherwise, whatever amount you can spare.

[Sailor Con Queso]

Francois,

In a commercial environment, do you transfer whey directly to your brine tanks? Do you filter and/or sterilize at all? What pH do you adjust to? Do you chill the brine? How long can you use the same whey based brine? Do you treat between batches of cheese? What protocols do you have for Listeria avoidance?

[iratherfly]

Brentsbox - funny. for the longest time people here thought my name was Ira.

Francois - We are talking about a wine or ale brine to dunk the cheese at after already dunking it in regular (or whey) brine and drying it for 2-3 days. Not a natural rind.  Do you suggest to add some whey to the ale to tip its acidity level?

[Boofer]

When you add whey to your brine, how much do you add?  The brine I have been using has been 1/2 whey and 1/2 water with salt.

When I make cheese I collect the whey, add salt to it while it's still warm, and refrigerate it for use after the press.

-Boofer-

[iratherfly]

But we are talking about adding it to a brine of ale - after the regular brining and drying. The whey conversation was a comment about an alternative for the vinegar that I have suggested as nothing more than a pH regulator.

[Boofer]

Fine, then pop a cap and add a brewski to the mix. All is well. I prefer dark ales. Oooh, a dopplebock would be nice!

Ayinger Celebrator, Paulaner Salvator, and Spaten Optimator come to mind. 

-Boofer-

[FRANCOIS]

Sailor,
I don't think we have changed brine in years, in fact I am certain of it.  We use an ultra-filtration membrane, inline chlorine dosing and automated salinity.  Listeria, like everywhere else in the plant, is on a sampling plan.

That't not much help to you but what we do for feta may be.  We store feta for 4 weeks minimum in brine from the make.  After the make the whey boiled with a steam pipe, salt added and is stored in barrels till after cheese draining.  It is allowed to cool.  It is then pumped into the aging containers and the cheese lowered in on racks.  The whey/brine is dumped after each batch of feta is aged.

Others,
Whey not only provides acidity but also calcium.  I would still add as much whey as you can to any brine, beer or not.   

[Sailor Con Queso]

So you dose with chlorine after every batch? Rate? How do you manage depleted calcium levels?

If you boil the whey, don't you precipitate Ricotta as albumin proteins?

[FRANCOIS]

Calcium levels don't get depleted in whey brine, the problem occurs only when you use new water in brine and calcium leaches out of your cheese util it reaches equilibrium in the brine.

No idea what the dosing is, it's all automated and controlled by PLC. 

We boil whey only for feta, which does not go through the regular brine process.  It does not precipitate becuase there is no acid added.

We only keep some whey for ricotta and it is handled outside of the brine and feta process.