Author Topic: Tomme Cheese Making Recipe  (Read 50212 times)

Online ArnaudForestier

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Re: Tomme Cheese Making Recipe
« Reply #255 on: January 04, 2012, 11:39:01 AM »
What would life be without all-consuming obsession healthy interests and hobbies?

 ;D,  Uh, placid boring?

Cheese has consumed me for over a year now, and I consume it in turn.

 ;D,  It's only fair.
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Offline dthelmers

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Re: Tomme Cheese Making Recipe
« Reply #256 on: January 04, 2012, 11:39:18 AM »
Cheese has consumed me for over a year now, and I consume it in turn.
Dave in CT

Offline dthelmers

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Re: Tomme Cheese Making Recipe
« Reply #257 on: January 04, 2012, 11:41:21 AM »
Yes, it's been fair, with one or two really excellent. ;)
Dave in CT

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Re: Tomme Cheese Making Recipe
« Reply #258 on: January 04, 2012, 11:53:12 AM »
Then it sounds like you're winning the battle, Dave.   8)

(OK, I admit, with this last stretch, I've committed mortal sin - against humor.  I feel stale air around these here parts, and I've only myself to blame.  Sorry, Pav - your thread - I'll now stop hijacking with my frivolousness.  Back to you.  :-[)
- Paul

Offline Boofer

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Re: Tomme Cheese Making Recipe
« Reply #259 on: January 04, 2012, 02:39:47 PM »
For that approach, it's only with diacetyl-producing strains, or with protectorants, not the main acidifier, which should be lactococcus for tommes, perhaps with some Strep. The main acidifying culture, you add closer to proper temp range, and either wait for DVI and tolerate the slower speed, or use mothers. Reason is because for acid producing culture, you need higher temp... there's no real advantage to adding them in when you're going to refrigerate them. If you want a faster drop, switch to a new strain of lactococcus/adjust pitch quantity
Got it.

Past effort:
  • 1/4 tsp Kazu (LL,LC,LD,LH)
  • 1/16 tsp TA61
  • 1/8 tsp PLA
  • 1/32 tsp Mycodore

New effort:
  • 1/2 tsp MA4001 (LL,LC,LD,ST)
  • 1/16 tsp LH
  • 1/8 tsp PLA
  • 1/32 tsp Mycodore
  • 1/16 tsp LM057

I've swapped the Kazu and TA61 and replaced them with MA4001 plus LH. Seems like a viable compromise. Tell me if otherwise, please.

Kudos, Boof, busy as always!
All hail, Paul! Good to hear you've got your hand in the game again.

Yeah, I'm just maintaining/improving my hand when and where I can. Some successes...some  ???  ::) makes. More molds to play with (Thanks, Yoav.). More ambition to tweak a little better here and there.

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Online ArnaudForestier

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Re: Tomme Cheese Making Recipe
« Reply #260 on: January 04, 2012, 02:54:30 PM »
It's fun as always to follow your doings, Boof.  You've such an impressive portfolio of makes, and variety of makes - blows my mind.  I'm pretty much staying in Savoie, France, it seems - soft alpine in winter and hard alpine in spring and summer. 

BTW - sorry again for the off-topic, Pav - but a visit to our old haunt for our son's 11th brought his request for a fave - Bryndza- any recipes, anyone?  Basically, a chevre-type soft, with sheep's milk, I'm guessing?  (should probably start this in another thread, but Boof, thought you might have made this, sometime?  Anyone?)

Edit: Whoops - sorry, saw, of course, Pav's contributions, after the fact.  Not sure if this was a Slovak, Polish or other make - not sure, in fact, where the one we buy comes from.  The variant we enjoyed from the Polish deli was flavorful, creamy-soft, spreadable, not-crumbly, fairly well-salted.    Will dig further into that thread, sorry for not looking first.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 03:14:26 PM by ArnaudForestier »
- Paul

Offline NimbinValley

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Re: Tomme Cheese Making Recipe
« Reply #261 on: January 04, 2012, 03:57:04 PM »
I need to explore this a bit more...

For that approach, it's only with diacetyl-producing strains, or with protectorants, not the main acidifier, which should be lactococcus for tommes, perhaps with some Strep.

So if we wanted to keep milk 'fresher' longer then adding some non-acid producing starters the day before will help and it will also contribute to flavour if diactetyl is produced?

Some of the lactoccocus will produce acid though.  Is it just that at the lower temps they are not active enough to produce any significant amount of acid?

The main acidifying culture, you add closer to proper temp range, and either wait for DVI and tolerate the slower speed, or use mothers. Reason is because for acid producing culture, you need higher temp... there's no real advantage to adding them in when you're going to refrigerate them. If you want a faster drop, switch to a new strain of lactococcus/adjust pitch quantity
Got it.

Past effort:
  • 1/4 tsp Kazu (LL,LC,LD,LH)
  • 1/16 tsp TA61
  • 1/8 tsp PLA
  • 1/32 tsp Mycodore

Do you add the PLA since you will wash the rind with this during maturation and this will help speed up the process?

New effort:
  • 1/2 tsp MA4001 (LL,LC,LD,ST)
  • 1/16 tsp LH
  • 1/8 tsp PLA
  • 1/32 tsp Mycodore
  • 1/16 tsp LM057

I've swapped the Kazu and TA61 and replaced them with MA4001 plus LH. Seems like a viable compromise. Tell me if otherwise, please.

I would have thought that the MA4001 would be too strain specific if you were chasing a variety of more intense flavour notes.  Kazu may be a better option.  Any comments here?

Kudos, Boof, busy as always!
All hail, Paul! Good to hear you've got your hand in the game again.

Yeah, I'm just maintaining/improving my hand when and where I can. Some successes...some  ???  ::) makes. More molds to play with (Thanks, Yoav.). More ambition to tweak a little better here and there.

-Boofer-

Offline NimbinValley

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Re: Tomme Cheese Making Recipe
« Reply #262 on: January 04, 2012, 04:31:39 PM »
What would be the consequence flavour wise of too much diacetyl?

By ripening overnight with say Kazu or Flora Danica PLUS some LM would this be overkill in a cam do you think? Australians love fat/buttery/creamy flavours and textures - just take a walk through any shopping mall and you can see the result!

By the way, I haven't quite worked out how the 'quote' function works on here so my last post has bits of my comments mixed in with other quotes...

NVD.

Offline linuxboy

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Re: Tomme Cheese Making Recipe
« Reply #263 on: January 04, 2012, 04:48:42 PM »
Quote
What would be the consequence flavour wise of too much diacetyl?
Short term? Overwhelming, almost synthetic overly butter notes. Long term, it breaks down and forms other compounds in the cheese, which is somewhat difficult to predict. Many times, diacetyl breaks down into flavorless compounds.
Quote
would this be overkill in a cam do you think?
Why the Kazu? I think using cocktails of cultures is a cool approach, but I would exercise some restraint to try and mirror natural processes. If you're doing a blended inoculation to night milk, I would keep the total mix under .2%. You can do Kazu, nothing wrong with it, just that most of what's in Kazu will be dormant in the fridge. You need borderline psychrotrophs such as LM.
Quote
So if we wanted to keep milk 'fresher' longer then adding some non-acid producing starters the day before will help and it will also contribute to flavour if diactetyl is produced?
Yes, but it is strain specific. And acid is still produced... these starters usually work with the lactoperoxidase system in milk, to help give a boost to its "immunity".
Quote
Some of the lactoccocus will produce acid though.  Is it just that at the lower temps they are not active enough to produce any significant amount of acid?
Yes, also more complex than that because using a normal O type, fast acid strain is typically not appropriate as a protectorant. The Leuconostoc and Lactococcus genus has many strains that are quite different in their diversity.
Quote
I would have thought that the MA4001 would be too strain specific if you were chasing a variety of more intense flavour notes.  Kazu may be a better option.  Any comments here?
Try both, this is a bit of an art because milk differs. :)

Taking an extended leave (until 2015) from the forums to build out my farm and dairy. Please e-mail or PM if you need anything.

Offline Cloversmilker

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Re: Tomme Cheese Making Recipe
« Reply #264 on: January 04, 2012, 05:30:34 PM »
Thanks for the discussion.  I can't contribute much, but certainly appreciate the insight.


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Offline Boofer

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Re: Tomme Cheese Making Recipe
« Reply #265 on: January 05, 2012, 12:34:43 AM »
By the way, I haven't quite worked out how the 'quote' function works on here so my last post has bits of my comments mixed in with other quotes...
Yeah, until I went back up and reread the posting again I hadn't recognized that some of those weren't my words, though that's how it appears.  :o

You can use the "Insert Quote" to grab someone's posting and then edit out what may not be relevant. You can do that repeatedly if you want to comment on pieces of a posting. I sometimes grab a posting and then COPY and PASTE the "quote author=....." and "/quote" parts (with the brackets) to tell the page where the piece starts and ends.

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Offline NimbinValley

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Re: Tomme Cheese Making Recipe
« Reply #266 on: January 05, 2012, 03:38:35 AM »
Cheers.

Offline NimbinValley

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Re: Tomme Cheese Making Recipe
« Reply #267 on: January 10, 2012, 06:06:30 PM »
More tomme rind discussion...

I have been washing the rind of my washed curd tomme with a 5% brine and PLA every 2 or 3 days.  It is now 4 weeks since I made it (13/12/11) and I am looking for some guidance.  Pic below.

I am thinking I will now vacuum pack it for the next 6 months.  After I take it out I will oil it every couple of days for a couple of weeks to harden it up.

Any comments?

NVD

Offline Missy Greene

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Re: Tomme Cheese Making Recipe
« Reply #268 on: January 18, 2012, 07:56:45 PM »
what are you using for a mold? the texture pattern look so nice? thanks Missy

Offline NimbinValley

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Re: Tomme Cheese Making Recipe
« Reply #269 on: January 19, 2012, 08:32:31 PM »
I am just using standard hard cheese hoops that are about 200mm in diameter.  I have cut liners made out of cheese matting to fit inside them with a circle for each end.  The hoops I have a slightly tapered and I think it would be better if they were straight as it makes the liners warp a bit.  I'll try and get a pic up.

NVD