Hello from Paris

[nicooOmg]

Greetins my dear cheese amateur !
I am Nico, french cook living currently in Paris.
I found this forum by searching for some cheese recipes, indeed, I would like to start making cheeses, especially Camembert, Chèvre Sandré, Fourme d'Ambert - good start I guess ?

The next year, I'll be travelling to Colombia, in the jungle, where I will prepair these delicious cheeses, and I would love to read the advices from the community about making cheeses in particular conditions.
Indeed, the project I'm joining there is about ecology, nature-friendly and low human-impact over the nature : animals and plants ;
I have to admit I never tried doing any cheeses, so I'll just throw a few questions and see where it brings me 

It is possible to make cheeses, without using plastic molds ; maybe by using coconut shells, or wood ?
I see many pages selling cultures, but since I'll be living in the amazonia, I wont have a good access to shops, and delivery does not exist, is it possible to make my own cultures, i.e buying one bag, and then let them grow by myself (Again, no plastic, coconut shells  )
Just like cultures, the other ingredients, is it possible to "make" them, or gather them in the nature ?

Can't wait to start making cheeses, I've a few topics and your cheeses are am-a-zing!!!

Cheers!

Nico

[Gregore]

Your probably going to have to learn to make kefir cheeses if your going to be there more than a few years , if not you can bring most of what you will need to last that long .

Kefir  grains can be dried and stored  and or frozen as can most cultures , molds can be made from non reactive woods

The bigger question is where are you going to get milk , and will you have a way to cool them to  50 to 55F ?

[Danbo]

Welcome to the forum.

[nicooOmg]

Your probably going to have to learn to make kefir cheeses if your going to be there more than a few years , if not you can bring most of what you will need to last that long .

Kefir  grains can be dried and stored  and or frozen as can most cultures , molds can be made from non reactive woods

The bigger question is where are you going to get milk , and will you have a way to cool them to  50 to 55F ?

Hello Gregore !

Lets talk in Celsius please haha !
Yeah I have access to electricity, clean & disinfected material, fridge, etc. But only a regular kitchen.
However I'm flying there so I can't take big stuff in my luggages, that's why I'll probably have to craft my molds. I've been thinking to make little goat cheeses using coconut shells.
There are cows nearby where I'll live, so I can get the milk, fresh, everyday
But yeah, I might not have the time to make cheese that requires long waiting like blue cheeses, but I guess goat cheeses, or a camembert or st nectaire is possible ?

Thanks for your time, nico

[Al Lewis]

Welcome to the forum! What makes you think blue cheese takes a long time to make? 

[awakephd]

Welcome to the forum, Nico! My first thought (and maybe already what you are thinking) is that you need to go ahead and make some cheese now, before trying to learn how to do it in less than ideal conditions!

The suggestion to use kefir as your starter is a good one. If you make cheese continually, you can use the whey from one batch to innoculate the next batch. And in theory, you can use the natural bacteria present in the milk, without adding anything else -- the danger being that you may or may not get the right bacteria to dominate.

As for molds, yes, you can use wood. As someone else has already said, it needs to be non-reactive, or to say it another way, a wood that does not leach unpleasant tastes into liquids that are stored in it. My guess would be that coconut shells might work just fine in that regard, though the shape and size may not be the best.

How much cheese are you planning to make at a time? If you are planning relatively small batches, say using 4 gallons per week, you could quite easily take a year's supply of freeze-dried cultures, or even a two-year's supply - the packages are small and light, and even though they are best kept frozen, they can survive some time in less-than-ideal conditions.

The ideal temperature for aging most cheeses is around 10-12°C. This is true even for short-aged cheeses such as camembert, though you can do some of the aging in a colder refrigerator once the mold is well established. You mentioned not having time for blue cheese ... but isn't Fourme d'Ambert a blue cheese? Perhaps I have gotten mixed up with something else? In any case, a blue cheese is going to take around 12-14 weeks to mature; a camembert is going to take 4-6 weeks, depending on the temperature at which it is kept. You can also make some hard cheeses, such as a Caerphilly or Lancashire, which will mature in as little as 3 to 6 weeks respectively. These will all be best if matured at 10-12°C.

[Al Lewis]

You also need to check with customs for the country you are entering.  As I found out when I tried to ship a culture to Mal, to my dismay, certain cultures are blocked from import.

[nicooOmg]

You also need to check with customs for the country you are entering.  As I found out when I tried to ship a culture to Mal, to my dismay, certain cultures are blocked from import.

Well, I'm first making a few tests during 5 month in the jungle, to see what I can do, what isn't possible. Also gonna see if people might like my cheeses. I'll probably start by doing what we called "troc" in french, like I'll gift a few cheeses (well, only it's they are awesome ofc !) and hope the people there might offer me something in return, like, idk, eggs, meat, piranhas ( because they taste good ! )

And I can't make huge batches, so making a lot of FdA's might be too time and milk consuming. I'd rather make perfect camemberts which takes less milk, space and time than big cheeses. Even tho I'd love to make blue cheese haha ^^


---------

Welcome to the forum, Nico! My first thought (and maybe already what you are thinking) is that you need to go ahead and make some cheese now, before trying to learn how to do it in less than ideal conditions!

The suggestion to use kefir as your starter is a good one. If you make cheese continually, you can use the whey from one batch to innoculate the next batch. And in theory, you can use the natural bacteria present in the milk, without adding anything else -- the danger being that you may or may not get the right bacteria to dominate.

As for molds, yes, you can use wood. As someone else has already said, it needs to be non-reactive, or to say it another way, a wood that does not leach unpleasant tastes into liquids that are stored in it. My guess would be that coconut shells might work just fine in that regard, though the shape and size may not be the best.

How much cheese are you planning to make at a time? If you are planning relatively small batches, say using 4 gallons per week, you could quite easily take a year's supply of freeze-dried cultures, or even a two-year's supply - the packages are small and light, and even though they are best kept frozen, they can survive some time in less-than-ideal conditions.

The ideal temperature for aging most cheeses is around 10-12°C. This is true even for short-aged cheeses such as camembert, though you can do some of the aging in a colder refrigerator once the mold is well established. You mentioned not having time for blue cheese ... but isn't Fourme d'Ambert a blue cheese? Perhaps I have gotten mixed up with something else? In any case, a blue cheese is going to take around 12-14 weeks to mature; a camembert is going to take 4-6 weeks, depending on the temperature at which it is kept. You can also make some hard cheeses, such as a Caerphilly or Lancashire, which will mature in as little as 3 to 6 weeks respectively. These will all be best if matured at 10-12°C.

Well I'm cool with starting in hard conditions, here in Paris I don't have the required space to make anything, plus my mom is hosting AirBnbs, and she'll kill me haha !
So I could buy a small amount of the bacteria needed for a cheese, let's say Camembert, or St Nectaire, and then I can simply freeze and reuse the whey produced by each batch ? This is exactly what I'm looking for. Re-use old stuff !
Yeah coconuts sound cool, but very tiny, maybe I could use them to make fantasy cheeses, like coconut/ananas/mango flavoured goat fresh cottage cheese. Is there a list of woods that can't or can be used?
I'm planning on making - let's say - 4-5 cheese (Camembert/St Nectaire size/type) , one or two for me, the rest will be used for gifts. (cf top of my post)
As for the temperature, I guess I'll have to build a cold chamber for my cheeses (because most of the fridges aren't ventilated ; am I right ? )

Thanks,

Nico

[awakephd]

Al's warning is something I never would have thought of, but definitely needs to be checked.

If you have access to a freezer, a better alternative, rather than freezing the whey, is to make a "mother culture" and freeze that into ice cube trays. Search the forum for "mother culture" to get the procedure.

But honestly, if you are allowed to bring the cultures into the country at all, I wouldn't be thinking about messing with a mother culture. For a 5 month stay, 1 package of Flora Danica (50 DCU), 1 package of Geo 13 (or other variety of your choice), and one package of PC ABL (again, or other variety of your choice) will be plenty to make at least a couple of dozen batches of camembert. Keep the cultures in ziploc bags in the freezer.

[Al Lewis]

I hate to bring up something off topic but have you ever been in a jungle?  A real jungle?

[Gregore]

Put the cultures in your luggage and the chances of them being noticed are 1 in a million .

When you get to there you want some one to make some of these  wooden molds for you , should be easy enough

http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,15866.msg121325.html#msg121325

[nicooOmg]

Al's warning is something I never would have thought of, but definitely needs to be checked.

If you have access to a freezer, a better alternative, rather than freezing the whey, is to make a "mother culture" and freeze that into ice cube trays. Search the forum for "mother culture" to get the procedure.

But honestly, if you are allowed to bring the cultures into the country at all, I wouldn't be thinking about messing with a mother culture. For a 5 month stay, 1 package of Flora Danica (50 DCU), 1 package of Geo 13 (or other variety of your choice), and one package of PC ABL (again, or other variety of your choice) will be plenty to make at least a couple of dozen batches of camembert. Keep the cultures in ziploc bags in the freezer.

Okay, I'll keep that in mind (Mother Culture). Of course I'll start with a few packages, but if the "I can go buy when-ever I want cultures" is not available, which is probably true, I'll have to start making what you just said ! I'm staying 5 month, and if I love it (living there), I'm going back. I just need to make a 2month break to make some papers in France.

I hate to bring up something off topic but have you ever been in a jungle?  A real jungle?

Yes but just a week in the amazon part of bolivia. And it scares me af to go live there for 5 month. I just came back from vaccination ... I'm halfway, already 4 done lol! So much XXXX could happen over there !

Put the cultures in your luggage and the chances of them being noticed are 1 in a million .

When you get to there you want some one to make some of these  wooden molds for you , should be easy enough

http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,15866.msg121325.html#msg121325

Thanks ^^ Yeah I'll need to craft some tools. I have two friends there and we're all very handy and we all work together on the same project, so I'll get help sometimes for the cheeses, and also cured meats, etc !

[awakephd]

Amazon, huh? I was under the impression that you could order just about anything from Amazon.

Oh, wait ... maybe that's a different Amazon.

[Gregore]

I think also the 2 most important things  your going to need is  the book mastering artisan cheesemaking by Gianaclis  Caldwell  this is a must have book

And second a internet connection so we can see all your cheeses.

[nicooOmg]

I think also the 2 most important things  your going to need is  the book mastering artisan cheesemaking by Gianaclis  Caldwell  this is a must have book

And second a internet connection so we can see all your cheeses.

I will of course have internet, and also one of my friend is fotograph, so I if succeed in visual & gustative delicious cheeses, fotos will be shot