Author Topic: Dividing up starter culture - Newbie question.  (Read 1054 times)

Offline Kirkbybil

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Dividing up starter culture - Newbie question.
« on: April 14, 2013, 03:40:52 PM »
Hi,

I probably did he wrong thing but it seemed a good idea at the time to buy a bigger packet of thermophilic starter as the small ones seem very expensive in the UK.

So, I bought a packet of Danisco/Choozit  TA61. It contains 9.3g and the label says LYO 50 DCU.

I have a number of those small plastic vials so I thought I could sterilise them and divide up the culture into them and put them back in the freezer to use as needed.

I have previously bought the sachets of mesophilic that contain just enough for one batch (seems to be 2 gallons) of milk.

Can anyone tell me how many grams of the culture I should put into each vial to be the equivalent of one of these sachets, ie a 2 gallon recipe so I can just use one each time, or maybe use one of them to make a mother culture to get even better value!

Many thanks.

Kirkbybil


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Online H-K-J

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Re: Dividing up starter culture - Newbie question.
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2013, 04:20:08 PM »
Read the product description on this link, it has the recommended dosages for small batches
act as if it were impossible to fail.

Offline Kirkbybil

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Re: Dividing up starter culture - Newbie question.
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2013, 05:03:12 PM »
Thank you - got it, it wasn't on the site I bought it from.

It says:-

"For making hard, Italian & Swiss cheeses like Parmesan, Romano, Provolone, Mozzarella & Emmental/Swiss. Use approximately 1/10 tsp.(.23g) for 1-10 gal.(3.7-37 liters) of milk."

So my 9.3g sachet will divide into 9.3/0.23 = 40 vials each to make 2 gallon batches (or mother cultures I assume).

Please can someone confirm this is correct.





 

Offline BobE102330

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Re: Dividing up starter culture - Newbie question.
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2013, 06:59:33 AM »
Your math is correct.  The usage seems low for P/H milk, or about right for raw.  I use about 3/8 tsp for  3.5 gallon batch when I use P/H with good results.

Offline Kirkbybil

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Re: Dividing up starter culture - Newbie question.
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2013, 01:33:02 PM »
Thank you!


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Offline klschnepp

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Re: Dividing up starter culture - Newbie question.
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2013, 03:46:56 AM »
I weigh each dose out (home cheesemaking really requires a micro scale) and put them into ice cube trays then add previously boiled water that has been cooled.  Frozen cubes are stored in small containers.  All sterile tools, of course.  This helps ensure you are retaining all the "flakes" of the starter. 

PS- mother culture would require less than direct inoculation...

Offline Kirkbybil

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Re: Dividing up starter culture - Newbie question.
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2013, 05:47:50 AM »

Never thought of doing it that way!

I bought some of those tiny polythene vials on eBay. Boiled them to sterilise together with small measuring spoon.  I also got a micro scale on eBay.  THen I put a vial, one at a time onto the scale, set it to zero, then carefully cut open the sachet of starter and spooned into the vials until the weight was between 0.23 and 0.30 grams. Then I put them all back in the freezer.

I generally make cheese in 3 gallon batches (that's what my pan holds) so I hope these will be around the correct amounts for a single batch.

Thanks.

Offline Boofer

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Re: Dividing up starter culture - Newbie question.
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2013, 09:30:36 AM »
I weigh each dose out (home cheesemaking really requires a micro scale) and put them into ice cube trays then add previously boiled water that has been cooled.  Frozen cubes are stored in small containers.  All sterile tools, of course.  This helps ensure you are retaining all the "flakes" of the starter. 

PS- mother culture would require less than direct inoculation...
Here I am, trying to keep my cultures dry in my freezer, and you've intentionally dosed yours with water...and frozen them. Does that work? I have done mother cultured cubes, which I have in my freezer, but that's something else.

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Offline klschnepp

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Re: Dividing up starter culture - Newbie question.
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2013, 02:02:55 AM »
You do want to make sure the culture stays dry if you are keeping it dry (does that make sense??  ???) .  However, no problem to "suspend" a DVI culture in frozen water.  Really makes the process easy and improves the accuracy of the dose IMHO.

Offline Tomer1

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Re: Dividing up starter culture - Newbie question.
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2013, 11:56:44 AM »
Quote
However, no problem to "suspend" a DVI culture in frozen water
I suppose that if your making a pre-starter the night before, even if you lose 60% of the cells count (you basically rehydrating and then starving the bacteria in a very cell wall bursting media)
you will still get a large population in the prestarter, large enough to inoculate at 1-2% bulk and get the acidity curve as expected.
If your defrosting it stright into your "main vat" It could act up and the acidification will be slower then the specs present.

I prefer to keep it dry in the original bag, reseal in hand pump vacuum bag.

That being said, I have some PC in a plastic vial in  the freezer for well over 2 years and it still works perfectly fine when inoculating the milk.  ;)
Seems to be keeping dry and not clumping.
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Offline Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Dividing up starter culture - Newbie question.
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2013, 03:30:00 PM »
Tomer, I agree with you. Water is a poor choice of media for suspending a culture. As you said, many bacteria will die because of cellular disruption during freezing so there is really no practical reason to rehydrate and freeze a dry culture like this. Making a Mother Culture then freezing into cubes is much more efficient and accurate.

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Offline klschnepp

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Re: Dividing up starter culture - Newbie question.
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2013, 04:38:11 PM »
For home cheese production, I think the cellular disruption is minimal and it is a tidy solution for folks dealing with DVI packaging designed for much larger batches-- less contamination risk and more accurate measuring.   Most commonly, folks let the cube defrost for an hour in advance of use.  It is really no different than using a dried starter nearer it's use by date (which clearly works, two years!  wow!!) and if one was really worried about it, could add an additional IU to compensate (I would not recommend, but just making the point). 

Using a DVI in live milk under normal conditions already results in deviations from the lovely acidification curves on the datasheets and I just don't think this method creates a material difference -- it is certainly a zillion times less impact than, for example,  the seasonal changes in milk (which is on my mind as the cows I get my milk from went out to pasture two days ago and it is all change in the vat!!)

 But this is a geek out to be sure, so apologies to Kirbybil!!  Just try things that you think are right and, above all, have fun with your cheesemaking!!