Author Topic: Hiking with cheese  (Read 6653 times)

wadethrupp

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Hiking with cheese
« on: March 02, 2017, 10:43:39 PM »
Hey everybody,

I'm planning a 40 day hike and I will need to stash my food before I start, the reason I've started this thread is to find out the best type and way to package my cheese (and salami if you know anything about that).

So I've done a lot of googleing and the best information I could find was from here .. http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php?topic=4666.0 ..
Now I know if a vacuum pack my cheese it will have a strong ammonia smell for a while. I can get past that if it is not dangerous.

Can any of you cheese enthusiasts explain to me what will happen and the risks involved if I vacuum seal a block of store brought cheddar or parmesan wrapped in cheese cloth and place it in a sealed container outbush for 40 days with temperatures fluctuating between 40 degrees cel and 0 (extreme cases).

Thanks in advance :)
Wade

Duntov

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Re: Hiking with cheese
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2017, 01:32:31 AM »
Hello Wade and welcome to the forum.  I would suggest that you vacuum pack and do it the day before you leave on the hike.  Buy cheeses that are already aged and you shouldn't have any ammonia issues.  The Parm will work for sure.  A long aged Cheddar and Gouda would also.  Just stay away from any soft young cheeses. 

Offline Gregore

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Re: Hiking with cheese
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2017, 02:35:09 AM »
I would try to bury them in a  bear proof container at least a few feet if possible this should help stop such large swings in temps.    If you go deep,enough you will hit the perfect temps to store cheese for years .

You could even add a temp data logger if your worried  , then you could report back here the temps .

Others could then use that info in the future .

Have fun

wadethrupp

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Re: Hiking with cheese
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2017, 09:23:01 AM »
Hello Wade and welcome to the forum.
Thanks Duntov  ;D and Gregor, thank you both for your replies

I'll look into a temp logger, that would be really good for others in the future.

What goes bad though? I'm pretty happy to just wing it since I've heard of others doing it and from the advice so far, but what risks are involved? Do nasties/bacteria grow in vac sealed cheese?

reg

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Re: Hiking with cheese
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2017, 12:56:19 PM »
Wade you can treat your salami in the same manner as cheese as they both like the same environments, just make sure your salami is dry cured not semi cured cooked sausage. Jerky would also be an item to consider taking.

Good luck and have a ball

Reg

Offline Gregore

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Re: Hiking with cheese
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2017, 02:27:01 PM »
The high temps you mention are certainly going to cause the fats to leak out of the cheese , and possibly even cause some spoilage . Cheese will be rubbery even if it does not spoil.


One certainly does not want to be sick when that far away from emergency help.

Even  1 foot into the earth will make a huge improvement in temp , it also keeps critters from getting at it so easily , at 3 feet or more it will be just like you put it in there yesterday even after many months .  Forest soil is very soft , so digging should be easy . Then stash the shovel for easy removal .  Mark 3 trees in a circle around the perimeter of the stash with flagging tape . One never knows how seasonal changes or weather can effect you ability to recognize the spot again .

Another thing to keep in mind is if an animal finds it above ground , but can't get into it because your using a bear canister , does not mean they will not cart it off a little ways . Never to be seen by you again .

I am assuming that you are stashing near where the trail comes past a road? 

wadethrupp

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Re: Hiking with cheese
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2017, 02:57:37 PM »
Dry cured.. Gotcha. Thanks reg.

Gregore I don't like the sound of rubbery cheese.. And I'm actually trying to look for ways not to bury my food drop as you're not meant to disturb anything in this part of Australia. BUT I might do it anyway.. there will be five drops in total so I think if I do bury it it will only be a foot deep because my retrieval tool will be no more than a garden trowel.

As for animals.. I think it's mainly rats that we need to worry about with this, apparently they'll chew through anything to get to food. Yeah the drops will be by "roads".

Beans

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Re: Hiking with cheese
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2017, 03:59:02 PM »
We had some success with a canned cheddar from Washington State college here in the US.  The cheese is called Cougar Gold Cheddar.  It's oddly great.  I have sent some to my nephew in the military a few times along with some homemade snack sticks.  Have a good walkabout.  Curt

http://www.thekitchn.com/cheese-in-a-can-cougar-gold-ch-154942

Offline awakephd

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Re: Hiking with cheese
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2017, 05:41:22 PM »
To add some further perspective: cheese is essentially preserved milk. There are multiple ways of preserving food, including 1) acidifying, 2) drying, 3) salting, and 4) fermenting. There are additional methods, in particular canning, but let's focus on these four. For acidifying and/or salting, think about pickles; for salting and/or drying, think about ham or jerky; for fermenting, think about wine. For all four of these, think about cheese!

Cheese involves fermenting the milk (lactic acid bacteria), which in the process acidifies the milk. The milk is "set" either via the action of the acidification or, more often, using an enzyme (rennet), and then the curd is cut, stirred, heated, or otherwise manipulated to allow a great deal of the liquid to drain away while leaving behind the fats and milk solids. The cheese is then salted, which also helps draw out some moisture, and of course adds flavor.

A "fresh" cheese, along with various short-aged cheeses, tends to be relatively high in moisture, and as a result these would not be good candidates for long-term storage under any circumstances, much less uncontrolled temperature swings. Some types of cheese, particularly the camemberts and bries and such, have a very definite shelf life due to the action of the yeast/mold. On the other hand, while no cheese is completely dry (you wouldn't want to eat it if it were!), most "aged" cheeses are relatively low in moisture level, and some, such as parmesan, are very low indeed.

Parmesan, if I recall correctly, was specifically developed to travel along with Roman armies. Note that, in addition to very low moisture, parmas also tend to be lower in fat, making the problem of fat leaching out at higher temperatures less of an issue. (Cheddar, by contrast, tends to be a high-fat cheese, so it is far more likely to have fats running out at higher temperatures.) All of this to say, a well-aged, dry, hard cheese is intended for use by travelers.

The idea of a canned cheese is interesting. Generally canning preserves by way of high heat (to destroy dangerous spores such as botulism) + sealing (to prevent any nasties from getting back in). Note that higher-acid foods, such as fruit preserves, can be canned at lower temperatures precisely because they are sufficiently acidic to keep botulism at bay. (Hey - "Botulism at Bay" sounds like a great name for a rock band ... but I digress.) I would be very curious to know how they have canned cheddar without leaching all the fat out in the process of heating it ...
-- Andy

Duntov

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Re: Hiking with cheese
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2017, 06:50:37 PM »


The idea of a canned cheese is interesting. Generally canning preserves by way of high heat (to destroy dangerous spores such as botulism) + sealing (to prevent any nasties from getting back in). Note that higher-acid foods, such as fruit preserves, can be canned at lower temperatures precisely because they are sufficiently acidic to keep botulism at bay. (Hey - "Botulism at Bay" sounds like a great name for a rock band ... but I digress.) I would be very curious to know how they have canned cheddar without leaching all the fat out in the process of heating it ...

They don't use heat for the canning process.  It is some sort of vacuum canning.  Here is a good video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGLVlpeg9dE

And here is a link the addresses shelf life and temps:  https://creamery.wsu.edu/cougar-cheese/faqs/
« Last Edit: March 03, 2017, 06:56:59 PM by Duntov »

Offline awakephd

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Re: Hiking with cheese
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2017, 04:17:04 AM »
They don't use heat for the canning process.  It is some sort of vacuum canning.  Here is a good video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGLVlpeg9dE

And here is a link the addresses shelf life and temps:  https://creamery.wsu.edu/cougar-cheese/faqs/

Very interesting. I don't know if there is an "official" definition of "canning" in the commercial sense. My perspective is/was coming strictly from the home canner (or is that cannist?) context, where heat is always involved. I wonder how many other commercial products might be "canned" without heat? For that matter, I wonder how canning in this sense differs from vacuum bagging ... ?
-- Andy

Duntov

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Re: Hiking with cheese
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2017, 12:56:27 PM »


I wonder how many other commercial products might be "canned" without heat? For that matter, I wonder how canning in this sense differs from vacuum bagging ... ?

Canned nuts comes to mind.

Offline Gregore

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Re: Hiking with cheese
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2017, 02:53:45 PM »
So from what I am hearing , your hiking in a protected area , your not supposed to disturb the soil , but they also from your asking this question offer no way to protect your food stuffs from heat and rats ??..

Or am I assuming too much .

Is the location remote enough to hide a solar powered cooler ?

And how agressive  to containers , are these rats ?

And lastly where the heck are you hiking , as it sounds interesting ?

Offline awakephd

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Re: Hiking with cheese
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2017, 06:56:19 PM »


I wonder how many other commercial products might be "canned" without heat? For that matter, I wonder how canning in this sense differs from vacuum bagging ... ?

Canned nuts comes to mind.

Good example. No doubt there must be others ... I'll have to scan the pantry shelves ...
-- Andy

wadethrupp

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Re: Hiking with cheese
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2017, 05:01:24 PM »
So from what I am hearing , your hiking in a protected area , your not supposed to disturb the soil , but they also from your asking this question offer no way to protect your food stuffs from heat and rats ??..
Or am I assuming too much .
Is the location remote enough to hide a solar powered cooler ?
And how agressive  to containers , are these rats ?
And lastly where the heck are you hiking , as it sounds interesting ?

Well while I have seen pictures on the internet about rats chewing through anything, I'm pretty sure that if I bag everything correctly before sealing in a food drum like container it wont smell so tasty and will be fine. Haha I shouldn't of even mentioned rats, I'm more worried about some bogan stealing it. ...If it didn't sound like a lot of money and effort I guess a solar powered cooler could be an option.

I'm hiking the Australian Alps, most of it is national park. It's kind of like the Appalachian Trail I think.. except shorter, rougher, more remote and way less traveled.


Cheers for all the comments. I'm going to mix it up with some vac sealed mature cheddar and parmesan. I'll check back here one day to update you all, thanks again.