Author Topic: I think I just made a Butgoudderesan  (Read 1917 times)

Duntov

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I think I just made a Butgoudderesan
« on: March 22, 2017, 11:19:04 PM »
Every had one of those days when the moon and stars just aren't in alignment?  I just did.  The plan was to do a Butterkase with cumin and coriander.  Here is what was intended:

Ingredients:
•   4 gal. raw milk
•   2 packet direct set Buttermilk culture (C21)
•   1 packet direct set Thermophilic culture (C201)
•   1 pinch Geotrichum Candidum (C7)
•   3/4 Tsp. Liquid Animal Rennet
•   24% Salt Brine

Steps:
1.   Add milk to pot and bring up temperature to 86° F (30° C).
2.   Sprinkle in all cultures, cover with lid and let rest 5 minutes.
3.   Stir well, cover with lid and let mature undisturbed for 1 hour.
4.   Slowing raise temperature to 104° F (40° C).
5.   Add rennet and wait for 25 minutes.
6.   Cut curds vertically only spaced 2 inches apart and let rest for 5 minutes maintaining temp.
7.   Cut horizontal with ladle and stir for 10 minutes while breaking curds down to about a 5/8” size.
8.   Stir and cook curds for an additional 10 minutes using a spoon as to not break curds further.
9.   Remove ½ of the whey and replace with 104° F (40° C) purified water.
10.   Gently stir with spoon for 30 minutes.
11.   Ladle curds into cloth lined 5.3" × 5" mold and press with 6 lbs. for 30 minutes.
12.   Flip, rewrap and press again for another 30 minutes with 6 lbs.
13.   Continue to flip every 30 minutes without cheese cloth and without weight for another 4-5 hours.
14.   Leave in mold, cover and place in normal fridge overnight.
15.   Next morning pat dry and place in brine for 5-6 hours.
16.   Pat dry and move to cave set at 85% humidity and 50-55° F (10-13° C).
17.   Age for 4-6 weeks flipping daily for the first week and every other day from there on. 
18.   Wipe as needed with brine solution to keep unwanted mold away.  Do not allow rind to dry out.

Unfortunately I added the rennet before raising the temp to 104F (step #4) first.  Good or bad I decided to slowly raise the temp while the rennet is working.  That didn't work well and I am sure only the bottom part of the mass got warmer.  So I went ahead and cut the curds and raised the temp as-fast-as I could to 104F.  I noticed the curds wanted to mat really easy.  I ended up getting my arm in the pot to try to break them up but they were a bit stringy.  I kept doing this during the whey replacement and the curds started to dry and look better.  I went to calibrate my pH meter to check the level for draining but the batteries went dead.  On top of that I set the timer and forgot to press go at least three times.  At this point of ultimate frustration I started laughing at myself as I felt like one of the Keystone Cops listening to Jakety Sax.  So I just proceeded  and decided to do the first press under whey thinking it couldn't hurt.

Thanks to Al Lewis for helping me to decide getting a SturdyPress as the wider base allows for using a large pot for pressing in the whey.

So now I wonder how this cheese will turn out.  Any guesses?


« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 11:48:01 PM by Duntov »

Offline Gregore

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Re: I think I just made a Butgoudderesan
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2017, 03:00:28 AM »
Yes had those days before .

Bad  idea to heat while rennet is working , a semi solid will not transfer heat through the mass well . But I guess you found that out the hard way .

Hope it all works out edible in the end.

Offline awakephd

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Re: I think I just made a Butgoudderesan
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2017, 12:47:46 PM »
Well, you'll get something edible, I'm sure. And if you're really lucky, you will have just invented the latest new rage in cheese! :)

Adding heat while renneting is a good way to completely mess up the coagulation, so you did well to get usable curds out of this.

Some questions about the recipe, arising from the fact that Butterkäse is on my list to try, but I haven't tried it yet:

1) Why so much culture? Just one packet of direct-set should be plenty for 4 gallons - ??
2) This seems like a very short amount of time in the brine; is Butterkäse generally a very low salt cheese?
3) What pH value are you shooting for at the end of pressing? (With that much culture, I would expect the pH to drop relatively low, even in the regular fridge overnight - ?)
4) Finally, why the geo? When you wipe the surface to keep unwanted molds away, are you able to keep from wiping the geo away?

I hope these come across as intended - only seeking information, not challenging the recipe!
-- Andy

Duntov

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Re: I think I just made a Butgoudderesan
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2017, 02:35:01 PM »
Well, you'll get something edible, I'm sure. And if you're really lucky, you will have just invented the latest new rage in cheese! :)

Yes, I plan on applying for a patent.  lol

Adding heat while renneting is a good way to completely mess up the coagulation, so you did well to get usable curds out of this.

Agreed.  Lesson learned!

Some questions about the recipe, arising from the fact that Butterkäse is on my list to try, but I haven't tried it yet:

1) Why so much culture? Just one packet of direct-set should be plenty for 4 gallons - ??
2) This seems like a very short amount of time in the brine; is Butterkäse generally a very low salt cheese?
3) What pH value are you shooting for at the end of pressing? (With that much culture, I would expect the pH to drop relatively low, even in the regular fridge overnight - ?)
4) Finally, why the geo? When you wipe the surface to keep unwanted molds away, are you able to keep from wiping the geo away?

I hope these come across as intended - only seeking information, not challenging the recipe!


I have made four previous Butterkase cheeses using the basic recipe from cheesemaking.com with fantastic results.  This time I was doing a 4 gallon batch so I did some interpolation.
http://www.cheesemaking.com/Butterkase.html

1)  My thoughts for doing 2 packs of the meso is that it dies off at 104F and the enzymes left are beneficial for aging.  It shouldn't contribute to the final pH.   Only the thermophilic culture would continue to mature.  At least that is what the recipe said would happen.

2)  The brine time is for a 2 gallon batch and I should have upped it for this 4 gallon batch.  I plan on increasing the time.  Butterkase in general isn't all that salty.  I have seen other recipes for semi-soft cheeses such as Havarti also have low brine times.

3)  I really didn't have a pH in mind as I have previously used the times per the recipe with great results.  My guess thou is that the pH would be on the higher side (less acidity) of most cheeses.

4)  Reason for Geo per the recipe:  "to dry out the surface and develop a protective surface growth."  The Geo comes back rather quickly after wiping.  It is quite resilient.  The rind is always thin, smooth, pliable and edible.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 03:28:32 PM by Duntov »

Sailor Con Queso

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Re: I think I just made a Butgoudderesan
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2017, 03:03:31 PM »
WAY too much bacteria. This will completely change the rate of acid production during (and after) the make. Meso starts to die but does NOT completely die out at 104F. Next time try using a little active buttermilk instead of the expensive, powdered culture.

Duntov

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Re: I think I just made a Butgoudderesan
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2017, 03:20:05 PM »
WAY too much bacteria. This will completely change the rate of acid production during (and after) the make. Meso starts to die but does NOT completely die out at 104F. Next time try using a little active buttermilk instead of the expensive, powdered culture.

I have no doubt you are correct.  I have been cutting back on the amount of cultures since switching to only using raw milk and getting better results.  My logic on this one may fail me.  I do have a new pH meter on the way that will allow me to test the acidity of the cheese when ready for the cave.

Here is a picture of it just before going into the brine.  Amazingly, it has the typical sponginess feel of the past Butterkase cheeses I have done.  At least it looks like a cheese!


lovinglife

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Re: I think I just made a Butgoudderesan
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2017, 07:20:02 PM »
That looks awesome!  I wish I could get my cheese to look that nice, I need more practice using molds I guess.

Offline Gregore

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Re: I think I just made a Butgoudderesan
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2017, 02:42:13 AM »
The cheese looks good , hopefully it tastes just as well.

I rarely use powdered culture directly , I almost always use a pre starter that I make over night then use 1% by weight , I like that I can go directly to rennet and I like saving a little cash on starters .

Only with lactic acid set will I add powder starters to the milk , as I want it to take a long time anyways.

Offline awakephd

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Re: I think I just made a Butgoudderesan
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2017, 08:22:00 PM »
John, thanks for the detailed answers - helpful to see the reasoning.
-- Andy

Duntov

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Re: I think I just made a Butgoudderesan
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2017, 06:15:43 PM »
I put my new pH meter to work today on this problem cheese.  As a comparison, I have shown in order 1) Problem Butterkase, 2) My Gouda at 5 weeks, 3) Store bought brie and 4) Flory's Truckle Cheddar at 14 months.  Both my cheeses may be a problem. 


Offline awakephd

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Re: I think I just made a Butgoudderesan
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2017, 07:04:05 PM »
Both my cheeses may be a problem.

Take my insights with a grain of salt, since I am a long way from an expert on this, but FWIW --

Not necessarily a problem, or not a huge problem. Yes, they may be a little low - but I don't think they are so low as to be especially crumbly. That cheddar is right on the money for the target pH - interesting, since I thought the pH changed a bit as it aged, but as I said, no expert.

The higher reading on the Brie is to be expected due to the action of the mold - when it started life, it was probably around 4.6-4.7, but the mold has raised the pH to 5.7; the rising pH is key to the Brie becoming gooey. Might be interesting to see if you can see any difference in pH of the Brie right next to the surface vs. right in the middle ...
-- Andy

Offline Gregore

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Re: I think I just made a Butgoudderesan
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2017, 02:26:31 AM »
I agree I do not see anything off enough to worry about , especially since it was done with the older ph meter .

Just remember from now on you will have no excuses .  ;)

Duntov

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Re: I think I just made a Butgoudderesan
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2017, 09:13:52 PM »
Well, it is just wait and see now.  This is actually a good learning curve with the help of the new pH meter. 
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 02:29:57 PM by Duntov »

Offline Stella

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Re: I think I just made a Butgoudderesan
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2017, 10:47:23 AM »
Your cheese looks really lovely, ph isn't all that low so it should be alright. Comparing ph of a fresh cheese to one that's aged isn't really relevant as they are really a different "animal".
You've done really well, learned a lot and didn't have to make lasagna! ( years ago when I started most fails were turned into lasagna) ;D

Duntov

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Re: I think I just made a Butgoudderesan
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2017, 02:43:00 PM »
I guess I have dumb luck.  It turned out as-good-as the other Butterkase cheeses I have made.  No better and no worse.  I am not a fan of the coriander so won't use that again.

« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 02:56:47 PM by Duntov »