Author Topic: Jarlsberg the Second  (Read 3147 times)

Offline Andrew Marshallsay

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Jarlsberg the Second
« on: March 27, 2017, 12:37:41 AM »
My first Jarlsberg, last year ran into a problem: no eye formation.
Disappointing, but I ended up with a very nice cheese anyway. I still wanted to have another try and see what I could do, so last week I started.
While I was preparing to do it, I came across a potential source of the problem. The culture supplier's website notes that propionic bacteria require the use of Lactobacillus helveticus. The recipe had called for mesophilic culture so, no LH.
This time I decided to make a couple of changes:
   - I used 50% meso culture and 50% thermo culture containing LH.
   - I reduced the ripening temperature from 35C to 32C to give the meso bacteria a headstart.
The cheese looks good so far, so it's just a matter of seeing what happens in the warm phase.
The one thing which has me puzzled is that other people seem to have made this cheese satisfactorily using meso cultures.
- Andrew

5ittingduck

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Re: Jarlsberg the Second
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2017, 09:28:14 AM »
I'm just starting to experiment with Swiss styles and am also having trouble with eye formation.
My warm aging temps might be a bit low, and I am using predominantly meso cultures and raw cow's milk.
A mate who makes cheese commercially makes several Swiss styles and they are all made using meso cultures.
I'll watch your progress with interest :)

dickdeuel

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Re: Jarlsberg the Second
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2017, 02:29:19 PM »
I have had very good luck with thermophile type C culture in the half dozen Jarlsberg I have made.The amount of culture I have settled on is 3/4 tsp. for my 5 gallon batch and got very good eye formation and excellent flavor.

Offline Andrew Marshallsay

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Re: Jarlsberg the Second
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2017, 07:04:04 AM »
This one has been in the warm phase for over four weeks now, mostly kept in the 20-25C range. So far there is no sign of inflation and at this stage I think that the Propionics have done all that they are going to do.
It has grown an interesting rind flora in spite of almost daily blitzes with scrubbing brush, brine and vinegar.
I gave it a scrub today under running water and in a couple of days time, after it has dried a bit, I will wax it and leave for a couple of months before opening.
- Andrew

AnnDee

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Re: Jarlsberg the Second
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2017, 01:32:50 PM »
Hi Andrew,
Which recipe are you using? And which PS are you using?
I make Jarlsberg regularly now, it is one of our favourite here. I tried thermo recipe and meso recipe, I prefer meso recipe. I had a batch with very little swelling once (it had small holes when I cut it) and I believe it is due to the PS. I got a different brand and have not had any problem since, I actually reduce the PS now because it has enough holes even with less PS.

Offline Andrew Marshallsay

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Re: Jarlsberg the Second
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2017, 07:29:58 AM »
Hi Ann
My make was based on recipes from cheesemaking.com and Scasnerkay on this Forum. (I think that both are pretty much the same.)
The PS came from cheesemaking.com.au (not related to cheesemaking.com). I don't know who the manufacturer was and I'm not sure how old it is, although I wouldn't have thought it was much more than 12 months. I may have to get some different culture if I decide to do this again. I was interested to hear that you experienced so much difference between cultures.
- Andrew

Offline Al Lewis

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Re: Jarlsberg the Second
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2017, 01:00:35 PM »
Hi Andrew,
Which recipe are you using? And which PS are you using?
I make Jarlsberg regularly now, it is one of our favourite here. I tried thermo recipe and meso recipe, I prefer meso recipe. I had a batch with very little swelling once (it had small holes when I cut it) and I believe it is due to the PS. I got a different brand and have not had any problem since, I actually reduce the PS now because it has enough holes even with less PS.

Ann, which one are you using?
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AnnDee

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Re: Jarlsberg the Second
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2017, 01:50:01 AM »
Andrew, I myself prefer Susan (Scasnerkay)'s recipe, the taste and texture is perfect how we like it.
Even though Louella Hill's recipe from her book has also produce good Jarlsberg (but with smaller holes). Now I stick to FD and PS only, it gives me sweet and nutty Jarlsberg with amazing smell.

Al, I use Biena PS now. I used a mysterious one that I bought from Country Brewer Australia before and I don't think it was very potent, I used it on 2 types of cheese and both have minimal swelling/holes.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 03:50:04 AM by AnnDee »

Duntov

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Re: Jarlsberg the Second
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2017, 03:20:17 AM »
A cheese for the knarley rind.  I love it!

Offline Andrew Marshallsay

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Re: Jarlsberg the Second
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2017, 11:02:56 PM »
Thanks, John.
That rind certainly was changing!
- Andrew

Savu

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Re: Jarlsberg the Second
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2017, 12:22:31 AM »
One of my suppliers has 2 different propionic cultures so maybe thats the problem:
"Culture 5
Propionic, no gas Propionic culture without gas production for pressed cheese. Gives the typical taste of i.e. Gruyere"

"Culture 10
Propionic culture gas producing strain for pressed cheese. Creates eyes in the cheese. Gives the typical taste of i.e. Swiss cheeses"

Offline Andrew Marshallsay

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Re: Jarlsberg the Second
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2017, 10:36:11 AM »
One of my suppliers has 2 different propionic cultures so maybe thats the problem:
Thanks Savu. That is interesting.
I haven't opened this one yet. That will happen in the next few weeks and then we will see what I've got.
I wouldn't be too disappointed if I got the taste without the eyes. In my experience eyes are pretty tasteless anyway.
- Andrew

Offline Andrew Marshallsay

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Re: Jarlsberg the Second
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2017, 02:20:14 AM »
Well, I've opened it. I'm not sure what it is, but it's not Jarlsberg.
The first thing that I noticed was that the rind had stuck to wax and the texture is flaky and crumbly. This surprised me as it is a washed curd cheese.
The taste is quite creamy but full bodied and tangy. There is no hint of the Propionic. Really, it's more like a cheddar than a Jarlsberg.
It's quite a nice cheese, so it's not a real failure. It is just a little disappointing that it is not what I was aiming for. Still, that's cheesemaking.
- Andrew

Offline awakephd

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Re: Jarlsberg the Second
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2017, 03:19:43 PM »
Andrew, do you have a way to check your pH? My first thought is that the pH got too low, resulting in the crumbly texture and tangy / cheddary taste.

For growing the PS, my experience is that 20°C (68°F) is definitely way too cool, and even 25°C (77°F) may not be warm enough. Even in the summer, when the house stays around 78°F, I find that I need more warmth to get swelling, at least with an Emmental-style make. I put them (in a ripening box) on top of the fridge, where some warmth from the coils raises the temperature a bit higher.

One other thought - PS is sensitive to salt; if I recall correctly, salt levels should be < 2%.

I've never read of any need for LH in order for PS to grow, and in fact my first Emmental-type makes did not include any LH, only ST. The LH does add some nuttiness to the flavor, and is worth includinig, IMHO.
-- Andy

Offline Andrew Marshallsay

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Re: Jarlsberg the Second
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2017, 10:49:49 PM »
Hi Andy. No, I don't have a pH meter. I do have some pH paper but I find it of limited value and seldom use it. The supplier of my cultures (cheesemaking.com.au) has confirmed that high acidity is the problem and cites the pale colour in the middle of the cheese as further evidence of this.
This, together with the temperature and the salting certainly gives me some things to think about if I decide to attempt one of these again.
Many thanks for the information.
- Andrew