Author Topic: Problems with drying Phase for Brie/Cams  (Read 2063 times)

AeonSam

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Problems with drying Phase for Brie/Cams
« on: April 21, 2017, 05:18:49 PM »
 Hello all,

I have been having a rough spell with my brie lately. This used to never be an issue, but I have been experimenting with different salting and drying methods.

I had recently read that sprinkling salt on the surface creates a "brine" and that a person should leave the brine there for at least eight hours and use coarse salt so that the transfer of whey to the surface doesn't happen too quickly. So I tried doing this but I accidentally used too much salt. I let the salt sit on one side for 8 hours and then flipped it and let it sit for another 8 hours. When I put the wheels in the ripening boxes - still had a lot of moisture coming out. The other thing I changed is that I read that I was supposed to dry these at around 60F as opposed to my house temp which is around 75 to 77F.

The PC never really develops now and the surface becomes flaky and crusty. I never had this issue before so I switched back to salting both sides and tried to dry my new wheels at 60f again and the same issue is occuring.

I have become a little confused now on the visual cues for the appropriate dryness. I can always go back to doing things the old way that I was doing them, but I'd like to understand concepts if anyone knows them. Any tips would be appreciated.

Sam

Offline Gregore

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Re: Problems with drying Phase for Brie/Cams
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2017, 05:48:31 AM »
60 is okay for the first 4 days or so then they should be colder or the geo is too happy 

kosher salt , sprinkle on  top and bottom and rub a little on the side  at 1.6 to 1.8 percent by weight 

They should still be reasonable wet on the surface when they go into the cave  , you can also run a fan over them just after salting if you think that they may be to wet

And pics are very helpful

AeonSam

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Re: Problems with drying Phase for Brie/Cams
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2017, 11:29:29 AM »
Thanks,
  first set is 2 weeks old compared to the 2nd set which are the same age. Do you have a drying schedule or do you go by appearance?
 
Also, the recipe has changed a little.

I now use

1/16 Geo 13
1/16 PC ABL
1/8 Flora Danica
1/16 KL 71
1/16 MD 88

For 2 Gallons of Non Homoginized and Lightly pasteurized milk.


Offline awakephd

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Re: Problems with drying Phase for Brie/Cams
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2017, 07:06:38 PM »
Sam, some thoughts on your recipe - I'm curious about the use of KL71. This appears to be a yeast that has some of the same function as geo, but perhaps typically used with washed-rind cheeses -- or so I gathered from a quick look on the internet. The brie and cam recipes I have seen generally use only half as much geo as PC, and no other yeast. Thus, I'm wondering whether the geo + KL71 is over-emphasizing the yeast at the expense of the PC - though to be honest, I don't know what effect, if any, that would have.

FWIW, here is how my recipe (modified from Mal / OzzieCheese recipe) compares:

For a 2-gallon make, I generally add a pint of heavy cream to the 2 gallons of 3.2% "whole milk."
I use half as much geo as I do PC, and half as much PC as you are using - 1/32 tsp of PC and 1/64 tsp of geo.
However, I'm using twice as much Flora Danica, and no extra MD-88; sometimes I add a pinch of MA011 to ensure thorough acidification.
For salting, I use 4.5 tsp of kosher salt total, half on one face of the cheeses, and then 12 hours later the other half on the other face. (To be clear: I make 3 rounds of cheese from 2 gallons, each about 6" diameter; thus, I put 3/4 tsp of salt on each face of each of the rounds, spreading the salt more or less evenly across the surface.)

Again, I don't know enough to know how these difference might or might not have any bearing on the issues you are having!

-- Andy

AeonSam

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Re: Problems with drying Phase for Brie/Cams
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2017, 09:23:49 PM »
Thanks Andy,

I will go back to those proportions and see what happens.

Sam

Offline OzzieCheese

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Re: Problems with drying Phase for Brie/Cams
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2017, 01:15:45 AM »
@Sam...
I don't actually dry my Cams.  I sort let them naturally aspirate in the ripening boxes.  If you have a look at my make you can see that I am still emptying out whey for quiet some time.  My makes are usually 6 of the 100mm shaped cams. I salt them by hand all over but not a lot - about 1 tsp rubbed all over and what sticks, sticks and that which doesn't well, I'm not too concerned. Your larger forms would need a little more.  I flip them once a day when in the ripening containers.

Hope that makes sense.

--Mal
Usually if one person asks a question then 10 are waiting for the answer - Please ask !

AeonSam

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Re: Problems with drying Phase for Brie/Cams
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2017, 05:55:22 PM »
Thanks Andy and Mal. I'm trying something close to your recipe today but with more milk since my hoops are so big.

Mal, for some reason, I'm unable to see your make sheet from my computer so I pm'd you.

Here's the recipe:

3 Gal of NH Lightly Pasteurized Whole Milk
1 1/2 Pints of NH Whipping Cream

1/4th Tsp of FD
1/32 Tsp PC-ABL
1/64 Tsp Geo-13

3/4 Tsp of Single Strength Rennet (because of the extra gallon and cream)

Warmed Milk to 80 Degrees and sprinkled cultures
Heated milk up to 90F and warmed for 1 Hour

Cut curd 1" (Had and accident and the curd cutter slipped out of my hand and into the milk) so curds weren't uniform.

Gently stirred curd for 15 minutes
Let rest for 15 minutes.

Placed curds in molds. Since they are so thick. I'm going to wait until the curds sink down to the halfway point of the mold.

I will then weigh my cheese and put 1.8% salt them

Does this sound kosher?

Here's some pics. Here's how I flip my curds as well.

Here's where I'm at for the moment. I noticed with Mal's cheese - that the curds are yellow with the cream but it seems like most of the fat and cream was on the outside of my curds. Any idea why?
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 11:20:51 AM by AeonSam »

Offline Boofer

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Re: Problems with drying Phase for Brie/Cams
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2017, 01:56:53 PM »
Here's where I'm at for the moment. I noticed with Mal's cheese - that the curds are yellow with the cream but it seems like most of the fat and cream was on the outside of my curds. Any idea why?
I have found that fresher milk allows the cream to more fully recombine with the milk. I've had milk and curds with gobs of floating butterfat. Trying to get the butterfat to go back into the curds is futile...it will not be assimilated. ;) 

I skim off the floating gobs and use it on my morning toast. The creamline milk I use acquires a thick plug of hardened cream at the neck of the glass bottle the longer the bottle sits after being filled. I know what day the milk gets delivered to the store and I try to get my milk on that day.

Here's additional information and here too.

-Boofer-


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Bread, beer, wine, cheese...it's all good.

AeonSam

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Re: Problems with drying Phase for Brie/Cams
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2017, 02:06:46 PM »
Boofer, thanks and good to know. I'm only able to make cheese on Saturdays but I will have to talk to the dairy guy at the store I buy it from. I do have visible globs of fat in my brie wheels. Have you noticed any major differences in your bloomy rinds with these?

Sam

Here's an update.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 06:21:14 PM by AeonSam »

AeonSam

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Re: Problems with drying Phase for Brie/Cams
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2017, 10:29:06 AM »
Here's the latest pic. This wheel is growing very nicely. I think it's the best one aesthetically that I've produced so far.

That thing in the background is a a flower cake for my Mom on mother's day. It looks edible.