Guys, is it not ripe yet?

[Niko]

Hi guys!

Please, help me with my camembert:


I used only PC (without Geotrichum). Fridge temperature was 5-10C (40-50F). After 3 weeks in fridge I wrapped it into paper, and 1 week later tried to cut. Overall it took 4 weeks.
Smell and taste are pretty moderate.

As you see, cheese became liquid only near the crust.

My guess is:
1) Fridge temperature is too low (should be warmer).
2) Cheese head height is too high. I made two heads out of 5 litres (1.32gal) of milk


What do you think, guys?
BTW, is crust ok or is it too thick? How to make it thinner? Wrap cheese into paper on earlier stages?
Thanks!

[awakephd]

Or, #3, need to wait longer.

It does seem like your cheeses are on the tall side. I'm wondering about the holes - what culture(s) did you use?

[OzzieCheese]

@Niko.  on a basic level the cheese looks ok however, at the temperature you matured it at I would be leaving it around 6-8 weeks.  Here are my notes

http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,13412.0.html

-- Mal

[Niko]

Or, #3, need to wait longer.

It does seem like your cheeses are on the tall side. I'm wondering about the holes - what culture(s) did you use?

I used only one culture: PC22 "fast acting" from ebay.
However, when I asked seller how "fast" is that, compared to normal PC, he didn't give any decent explanation.

Guys, do you know about crust? How to make it thinner?

[Gregore]

I think over all the cheese is looking good ,

I think the curd was a little dry and the temp. was certainly lower than it should be , and I agree it needs longer . It may or may not get very runny because of the dryer than normal curd .

But it will certainly get a deeper more nuanced flavor over the next few weeks .

If you can put it back together and wrap in cheese paper or waxed paper , give it an hour  or 2 a day  vacation outside the fridge to help with ripening .

[Niko]

I think over all the cheese is looking good ,

I think the curd was a little dry and the temp. was certainly lower than it should be , and I agree it needs longer . It may or may not get very runny because of the dryer than normal curd .

But it will certainly get a deeper more nuanced flavor over the next few weeks .

If you can put it back together and wrap in cheese paper or waxed paper , give it an hour  or 2 a day  vacation outside the fridge to help with ripening .

Oh, I left it for 24 hours room temp, and it really changed! It became way softer, looking pretty much like one type of commercial Camembert I've bought before.

I'll try to cut another head 1 or 2 weeks later and check what magic will happen.

[Andrew Marshallsay]

I used only one culture: PC22

Did you use a ripening culture such as Flora Danica? (I suspect that this was what Andy was getting at.)
I agree with Mal that the time is too short and that 6-8 weeks is closer to the mark. I also ripen mine at about 13C for the first 2-3 weeks to get the PC established.
On the other hand, you seem to have a pretty good coverage. If you think that it is too thick, you could try a different strain of PC.

[Niko]

I used only one culture: PC22

Did you use a ripening culture such as Flora Danica? (I suspect that this was what Andy was getting at.)
I agree with Mal that the time is too short and that 6-8 weeks is closer to the mark. I also ripen mine at about 13C for the first 2-3 weeks to get the PC established.
On the other hand, you seem to have a pretty good coverage. If you think that it is too thick, you could try a different strain of PC.

No, I didn't use any culture except PC22.

[OzzieCheese]

@Niko,

I would recommend that you use an additional culture to help with the acidification of the cheese.  Flora Danica is an excellent one for these types of cheese. The pH of the initial cheese needs to be about 4.7 to 4.9.  The process of ripening needs to actually raise the pH from the outside in and if the pH is too high to start with the softening only happens at the surface.  There is a much longer scientific explanation but effectively if the pH has no where to move then the resolubalisation of the calcium (goes gooey) doesn't occur.  Another good culture here is the sacco Mo30.

CheeseOn 

- Mal
   

[awakephd]

Was this using raw milk? If so, you should have gotten some acidification from native cultures. But if not, and you didn't use any cultures to ripen the milk itself (Flora Danica is my go-to choice, but you could also use any mesophilic culture), then I would guess your curds never acidified properly. As Mal says, this will keep the result from coming out the way you want it.

[Niko]

Was this using raw milk? If so, you should have gotten some acidification from native cultures. But if not, and you didn't use any cultures to ripen the milk itself (Flora Danica is my go-to choice, but you could also use any mesophilic culture), then I would guess your curds never acidified properly. As Mal says, this will keep the result from coming out the way you want it.

Yes I use raw milk.

[awakephd]

Okay, you should have gotten some acidification from the natural bacteria. But next time, I'd advise helping the natural bacteria along with some Flora Danica or similar.

[Boofer]

@Niko,

I would recommend that you use an additional culture to help with the acidification of the cheese.  Flora Danica is an excellent one for these types of cheese. The pH of the initial cheese needs to be about 4.7 to 4.9.  The process of ripening needs to actually raise the pH from the outside in and if the pH is too high to start with the softening only happens at the surface.  There is a much longer scientific explanation but effectively if the pH has no where to move then the resolubalisation of the calcium (goes gooey) doesn't occur.  Another good culture here is the sacco Mo30.

CheeseOn 

- Mal
   

I just read through your explanation again and concluded that it very clearly spells out what should be going on. Nicely done, Mal. It should be on the top of the Camembert recipe.

-Boofer-

[Niko]

Hi guys!
Here's second head of my first batch (total age: 6 weeks)


Everything is perfect, just as I wanted - overall liquid structure + solid center.

As of now, for me it works perfectly well with only penicillium and fresh raw milk. No other cultures are needed. Maybe for some extra taste, but my budget is tight at the moment, maybe i'll experiment with other stuff later.

Next batch I will make cheese heads a little thinner and softer; and ripening time, I guess, would be around 5 weeks.

[Duntov]

I am glad it turned out well.  Allow me to give you your first cheese!