First attempt at washed cheese---slow B. linens?

[nightsky]

I'm attempting my first batch of aged cheeses and I have three Taleggio-type cheeses (but with higher fat content) currently in the cave at the moment. The first cheese was made first as a very small batch (1 liter) while the remaining two were made with 3 liters divided into two cheeses two weeks later.

For all three cheeses, I'm trying out the following schedule:
- First week after salting: daily washing with 3% solution with B. linens on both sides
- After the first week, wash only on Wednesdays and Sundays

The thing that's worrying me is that I see very little B. linens growth. I'm also a bit confused about the washing protocol and the aging environment. I see different recommendations from various threads/website on humidity and storage. Right now, I'm maintaining humidity >90% and keeping a damp cloth (sprayed with the 3% brine) touching the cheese surfaces.

Also, about the washing procedure, is it normal for the washing cloth to become slightly milky as though rubbing off some of the cheese after washing?

One more thing I should mention is that the B. linens weren't taken from a commercial culture. I created an inoculating brine with store-bought Munster cheese. I'm also using the same brine to wash the rinds.

For reference, I've attached a picture of the progress a few days back. The leftmost cheese is a week older than the other two.

[DoctorCheese]

Sometimes it can take a while for the surface of the cheese to raise in pH enough for b linens to grow. Did you add any cultures to help with that? My higher pH cheeses tend to want to grow linens even when I ask them nicely not to, so try giving it time. How old is your cheese?

[nightsky]

This is probably not the best way to go about it but I was working with what I had on hand. Here's what I did in terms of cultures:
- maintain a mesophilic culture started from a Fromage Blanc direct set packet
- start the brine from the rind of store-bought Munster

So the only thing I'm definite about is the presence of B. linens and the mesophilic culture. I'm hoping they had some Geo in that cheese but I can only guess. Is there any way to know whether the surface is changing? It is getting slimy but in a creamy kind of way so I'm not sure if it's growth or just me rubbing off the cheese surface (I do the wash gently though).

The left one is 13 days old from salting and the remaining two are 6 days old from salting.

[DoctorCheese]

Slimy would be a good sign that there is some microflora at work. What exactly they are doing and who they are is uncertain, but my washed rinds have always gotten slimy before they got any orange. I personally would do a light spray and not mess too much with rubbing with a cloth. Maybe a sensual massage with some nice clean hands. You can check out my first B. linens adventure here

[nightsky]

I just checked out your thread. Thanks!

I'm still a bit confused with the washing procedure after reading that. Since I can do a light spray with clean hands, I suppose that will eliminate the worry about running out of cheese eventually from all the abrasion.  Still, I'm not too clear about what to do after. Did you air dry your cheese after washing? What about storage?

I'm currently keeping them in a (cheap) plastic box with a pool of water at the bottom (not touching the cheese of course) and damp/wet cloth on the cheeses. Is this too much moisture?

[DoctorCheese]

After you get the cheese wet, put it in a supperware container with the lid on and keep it at 55F. No need for pools of water or having cloth touching it or scrubbing it. Once it's slimey don't be washing it all the time either. I think you may have been rubbing off the good stuff that you need on there doing work to raise the pH. For my Tupperware setups I find that just keeping the cheese in the closed container provides plenty of humidity.

[nightsky]

So I did just that last night.  I put the cheeses in plastic containers with only a paper towel for a bed and without any extra source of water. I'm pretty sure humidity has changed since the older cheese started growing blue mold (those guys are fast!).

I scrubbed the blue off with some brine on a paper towel and just hand-washed the remaining cheeses. One thing I did notice is that it doesn't feel like there's really a distinct rind. It feels more like a single uniform piece of cheese. Is this really normal or did the really high humidity stop the rind from forming?

[DoctorCheese]

With my linens cheeses, I notice a similar phenomenon to what you are describing. A more distinct rind will begin to form later as the linens grows.

[Gregore]

So to see if I understand you  correctly ..... you started washing right away the next day after the cheeses were made or 1 week later ?

The cheese should sit for 4 to 7 days until it gets a little slimey then you can start to wash it.  That is the geo raising the ph on the surface and then when you start to wash , it knocks back the geo a little and the b linens comes along as it likes the wet a little more .

B linens and geo are everywhere , so no issues there .

I would stop washing for a few days and see if it gets a little more orange . It may not be a very dark color as some are very light orange .

[nightsky]

With my linens cheeses, I notice a similar phenomenon to what you are describing. A more distinct rind will begin to form later as the linens grows.

That's good to hear. Hopefully this works out. Thanks for the help!

So to see if I understand you  correctly ..... you started washing right away the next day after the cheeses were made or 1 week later ?

The cheese should sit for 4 to 7 days until it gets a little slimey then you can start to wash it.  That is the geo raising the ph on the surface and then when you start to wash , it knocks back the geo a little and the b linens comes along as it likes the wet a little more .

B linens and geo are everywhere , so no issues there .

I would stop washing for a few days and see if it gets a little more orange . It may not be a very dark color as some are very light orange .

Yeah, I started the washing process the day after the cheeses were salted. Is that bad for the cheese? The wash I use has B. linens so hopefully it partially makes up for it. The cheeses do have a slightly rosy color but it isn't too prominent yet.

[awakephd]

Depending  on the source of your store-bought Muenster, it may not have active B. linens - commercial cheeses (non-artisanal) often use short-cuts to simulate the results without taking the time needed for the real thing.

Are you getting any "smelly feet" odor? If so, even if you don't see orange, that is a good sign that some is at work.

[nightsky]

It certainly does have a prominent odor. But then again, anything I spray with the B linens brine I'm using tends to smell like the smelly feet.

I'm not sure about orange but the deeper crevices in the first cheese does have rosy spots. I'll check it out again tomorrow. It's darned hard to leave these cheeses alone without checking daily.

[nightsky]

I opened up the thin one and there was no sign of proteolysis or even a rind. The taste was also primarily sour so I guess the pH is still low. On the other hand, the thicker cheeses are turning a bit more orange at this point so I'm hoping that they're maturing better.

The two remaining cheeses are also starting to grow a fine white mold. Is there any way of knowing whether this is PC or GC? Should I knock this growth back with a wash or let it run its course to better condition the surface?

[DoctorCheese]

If it's sour I think you should consider adjusting something about the make. Did you salt at the right time and with enough gusto?

[nightsky]

With no pH meter yet, I treated it the same way I treated my Camembert (in fact they were made on the same day as my first Camembert). I left it to fully drain overnight under the assumption that the thermophilic cultures should be less active at room temperature anyway. I dry salted at 2% after the overnight drain.

Aren't some washed cheeses also supposed to start out as acidic and slowly increasing in pH as a result of the B. linens activity? Or is this kind of mechanism only done by Geo and PC?

EDIT:

So here's one of the two cheeses showing the fine white mold growth. Do I wash the mold off or let it partially condition the surface?