Understanding curd sizes, cutting, and stirring.

[AeonSam]

Hello,

This weekend I decided to make another butterkase but with a little higher fat content. In my attempts to improve my brie technique, I've been looking at Ozziecheese's technique of just barely stirring the curd so as to not lose much fat and moisture. I don't fully understand what I'm aiming at because I've read that high heat and more vigorous stirring can create a skin that ultimately traps the fat better than a larger curd can but that's obviously not what I want in a brie so when I take that to my butterkase recipe - I attempted to keep a very large curd but still get a skin on it to trap what I could.

I stirred a lot more gently than what I was comfortable with just to see how things turn out. What I got out of it was a very moist, pliable wheel that began forming around my fingers while holding it and when I placed it in the brine - the brine quickly turned opaque and the pressing had whey that was whiter than what I'm accustomed to so I know I was losing fat.

So we have floc multipliers as rules of thumb for each kind of cheese. Is there a rule of thumb for curd sizes and stirring? Besides thousands of years of trial and error - how does one determine curd size and stirring when attempting to make their own cheese?

So here's pics of the rather large curds and the final wheel. I only have "one mold to press them all" so every cheese looks like manchego.

[DoctorCheese]

A cheese for you simply because that mold looks so damn cool 

[Chetty]

I think that butterkase is usually cut to 3/8 of an inch for curd size if I remember right I don't have my notes with me.

 But as far as keeping in the fat with gentle stirring I would look at it this way.  The proteins have built a net around the fat globules, bacteria, and some water/whey.  When you cut the curd you slice part of that net and the stuff that was trapped in the cuts is now free. 

When stirring fast the curds get smooshed and out goes the fat. 

So to keep it in first you need a good set, I'm not much a believer in the floc. Method, I just make a half inch cut in the curd and then stick a knife at one end and lift. If the curd breaks cleanly and is smooth and shiny it is ready. 

As far as curd size you have to do some research and experiments to see what works for you. 

Also something that's helps is healing the curd before stirring, this let some whey rise and gives the curds something to move around it without getting damaged. 

But if you get the skin you have mentioned that traps the moisture inside you will have some problems aging the cheese and it might get acid-cut defects which is when cheeses have streaks of different colors in the paste. 

That's a lot hope my rambling was somewhat helpful

[Duntov]

Here are the curd steps I use for my Butterkase:

6.   Cut curds vertically only spaced 2 inches apart and let rest for 5 minutes maintaining temp.
7.   Cut horizontal with ladle and stir for 10 minutes while breaking curds down to about a 5/8” size.
8.   Stir and cook curds for an additional 10 minutes using a spoon as to not break curds further.
9.   Remove ½ of the whey and replace with 104° F (40° C) purified water.
10.   Gently stir with spoon for 30 minutes.

Don't get aggressive with the stirring until the curds are dryer.  The final cheese should feel like a water balloon after pressing.

[AeonSam]

Thanks Doctor for the cheese and Chetty for the tips.

Thanks John for the spoon idea. You use a regular tablespoon during the second phase of stirring?

Update - the wheel is sagging with moisture in the middle. That's a first but I barely stirred so it makes sense

Sam

[Duntov]

Thanks John for the spoon idea. You use a regular tablespoon during the second phase of stirring?

Sam,

At one time I used a stainless steel ladle to stir but found it broke up the curds too much.  I switched to a large wooden spoon with rounded edges and it works much better.

[AeonSam]

So I attempted this again with 4 cups of non homoginized cream with 2 gallons of whole fat milk and I stirred a little more aggressively but not as much as I usually do. I thought that my curd size was more reasonable than the last batch but I found that I still had way too much curd left for my little 2 pound hispanico press and had to make some squeaky cheese curds to eat with the surplus.

I'm a bit miffed that I can't seem to get uniform curds by the end of stirring and I get quite a bit of matting. I know that it may not make a profound difference in the end product but I'd really like to get as close to it as possible. Any tips on a stirring method?

Also, does anyone understand how to prevent fat leakage during pressing? Does it have to do with ambient temperature, curd temp or pressing weight? All of the above?

Sam

[Boofer]

Seems like you're not cutting/whisking the curd...just stirring. Is that correct?

-Boofer-

[AeonSam]

Yes, that it correct.

The recipe has a 1.5" cut with gentle stirring for 20 minutes, then washing then gentle stirring for 10 more minutes with pitching for 10 minutes.

I usually stir more aggressively and get smaller curds but I wanted to see if i could make the cheese creamier than it has been so I tried adding more fat and keeping larger curds.

Sam