Author Topic: Rind closing  (Read 260 times)

Offline Dorchestercheese

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Rind closing
« on: August 07, 2017, 08:11:05 PM »
Any idea why sometime holes stay in the rind no matter the pressing weight?

Offline awakephd

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Re: Rind closing
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2017, 07:36:26 AM »
We probably need more context to give an informed answer, but I'll take a shot at it --

Early on I thought the obvious key issue was the dryness of curds ... but in my developing understanding/experience, not so. Now I would say that dryness is third behind #1, pH (higher pH knits easier than lower pH) and #2, temperature (higher temperature knits easier than lower temperature).  Consider a parmesan-type make, cooked as dry as any cheese there is - but it knits very easily, with quite modest pressure -- the curd is quite warm (temperature) and relatively high pH when molded. Contrast a cheddar, where the curd has been allowed to acidify (lower pH) before molding; even though the curd has been kept warm (~100°F), it is not at all inclined to stick together. Hardest of all to knit is a Cantal - the curd is allowed to acidify overnight, so quite low pH and room temperature. Then salted and pressed - and it takes a LOT of pressure to get it to knit.

Admittedly, the latter two examples include another key issue - salt. I'm not sure it is correct to say that the salt makes the curds dry (cheddar has considerably more retained moisture than parmesan, for example), but I suspect it does make the surface of the curds "tough." I've never experimented to see what would happen if, for example, one cheddared, milled, and pressed without adding salt - how it would act in that case. I suspect it would knit more easily, but still much harder to knit than a low pH.

Of course, all of the above was qualified with an important phrase - "in my developing understanding/experience." I am still very much learning, and I may have drawn incorrect conclusions along the way. In other words, take this with, er, a grain of salt. :)

By the way, when you say "no matter the pressing weight" - how much have you tried? When I make Cantal, I press with 900 lbs on an 8" mold and get a decent knit ...
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 10:04:44 AM by awakephd »
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Offline Gregore

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Re: Rind closing
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2017, 09:48:18 AM »
Andys answer is correct , the only thing I will add is that dryness is second behind ph .

Ph is king ,  high ph curds stick via calcium bonding , below 5.8 or so that is less so .

But  lactic acid set has a ph below any  cantal or cheddar by a 100 fold , but is is a wet curd .


Offline awakephd

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Re: Rind closing
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2017, 10:07:36 AM »
Ah, that's an interesting example (lactic set curds) - very low pH, room temperature, but very wet, and I can indeed imagine that it sticks together just fine. :)
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Offline Dorchestercheese

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Re: Rind closing
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2017, 04:59:21 PM »
I've had problems with Tomme and Gruyere but not with Cheddar or Manchego types.
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Offline Gregore

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Re: Rind closing
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2017, 11:31:28 PM »
If a tomme does not stick to itself then the acid is too low,  too little pressing weight could also factor in if the ph is  just above 6 .  But not much as a tomme should have its own weight as the pressing weight , so usually not much at all.

Curds being too dry, heat hardening the outer curd during stirring or both could also be a small factor