Newbie with line on raw milk..needs advice!!

[dougspcs]

I'm very novice at this cheesemaking. I've acquired all the supplies to start and watched a good many videos from Gavin Webber..among others.

Locally I've even found a dairy farmer thru a friend who is willing to barter for raw milk for best possible results. Ontario, Canada has strict milk production standards of cleanliness so I shouldn't have to worry about any contamination...BUT?!?!

Is there any special process or handling of the milk as it is raw?? Should I consider stove-top pasteurization?

Not wishing to allow any "BAD" bacteria that the milk may already contain to taint the finished product..since of course it hasn't been pasteurized.

Also, I understand all the sterilization procedures for the containers I'll be transporting the milk from my supplier to home so no need to go into depth on that stuff.

Just interested in advice about the milk itself..

Thanks in advance..Doug

[Fritz]

Hi Doug,

Welcome to the cheese forums! 
I also live in Ontario (Caledon), and am a raw milk user from my own family cow...
My general rule of thumb, because I give some away to friends and family and want to be safe, is to gently pasteurize the raw milk for any cheese or milk products that does not get aged more than 80 days. That is the time, by general consensus, that it takes milk born pathogens to dissipate. 

There also is a school of thought that says "if you want the introduced cheese bacteria to behave as advertised, give the flavour profile as advertised, and give a cheese character that is as accurate as possible to the recipe being followed, then gently pasteurize the milk" .... do I do that? ...no...

what may be more important is to respect the fat (cream) content of some recipes... e.g. Most hard cheeses aged for over 8 months want a lower fat milk... buy a milk separator, it will pay for itself quickly

Nobody has been made sick from modern healthy cow milk collection, following good milk handling practices, for a long long time... you could get away with never pasteurizing your milk... your choice, make a good decision. PS... careful with young children and raw milk... I've been told they don't have the defense against pathogens like an adult.

Hope that helps, where abouts in Ontario are you?

F

[dougspcs]

That's fantastic "F"..pretty much chimes in with what most others have said.

But of course in any situation you have the opposition..these conflict of views make it confusing for someone with ZERO knowledge of the subject.

I'll take your advice and see how it turns out..

I like in Sarnia..a few hours from you.

I'm sure that I'll screw a few things up..but being as I'm a pretty meticulous person in most everything I do. This cheesemaking hobby seemed a fun way to pass the time once the cold weather gets here and the summer activities shut down.

Another question on the similar subject relates to another food hobby I also enjoy..smoking. Fish, beef, chicken, turkey...even cheese.

I've smoked store bought cheese and enjoyed it..but am excited to try my own.

My question is: should the smoking be done just after the pressing and before the aging process to allow the smoke to participate in creating the flavour profile as it ages?

Or

Will the smoke impede the aging process by killing the enzymes needed in the aging process..therefore smoke after aging?
 

[Fritz]

Great question... and coincidently I do curing and smoking here too...

Make the cheese first, let it age, when you are ready to divide into smaller pieces and wrap individually ("food saver" is your friend) COLD smoke your cheese portions at that time. If you don't have a cold smoker, use a product called a-maze-n smoking tubes http://www.amazenproducts.com/  check Amazon for best prices. Tip is not to over smoke your cheese. It's is easy to overpower cheese with smoke, I'm sure you may have come across that already.

Congrats on your choice of new hobby... you have found a great resource right here; the cheese forum. Jump in and contribute, and ask away, no question is silly and great bunch of mature users here. I suggest getting a few good books to learn fundamentals and good practices. Nothing beats learning by doing.

I'm pretty handy with cheese, meat, cooking, food, and consider myself well learned... but even following directions and rehearsed processes, one will be humbled from time to time and will question why something didn't work... so jump in with humility and document everything ... get a handheld pH meter (important). Don't start with mozzarella like many do... it's notariously tricky to master.  Colby, Gouda or Queso Fresco, Camembert are good starting cheeses that don't take too long to be ready to eat .. you will be constantly challenging yourself with new and trickier cheeses, so take it one day at a time and learn well... and most importantly... have fun!

F  ... Fritz  (my real name)

[dougspcs]

Thanks Fritz, good info on the smoking and all the rest. I kinda thought that smoking pre-aging might have detrimental effects on the aging process.

Yes I've got the cold smoke process figured pretty good..even built a cold-smoke generator from internet plans then plumbed it into my smoker box. Had a few over-smoked cheese, but now have that worked out.

Just hoping to compress the process..since after 1st aging the cheese, smoking it means more aging time to let the smoke mellow thru the cheese. I guess I'll just have to work on my patience!!

And yeah..I watched Gavin's mozzarella video..I see what you mean. That will be a bit down the line for me!

Think I'll start with some cheddar, Monterey Jack and some curds to break the ice..though the curds I might use store bought milk to avoid any safety issues.

I'll check back and report once I've tried a few. Doug

[Fritz]

Mmmmm... just to make sure we are on the same page.

You aren't "pre-aging" before smoking...The cheese is finished aging  you cut it up to manageable pieces (250-500gms maybe) ... smoke them and wrap in cheese paper or preferably "food saver" cryovac packs.
They are now aged and smoked, sure a little time helps mellow and evenly distributes the smoke, but you really don't need them to "age further". (you will not be eating a 2-7 lb cheese at once I hope) they will mellow out as they wait to be eaten over time...  but technically they are ready to eat now... enjoy!

[dougspcs]

Yep, I understood that's what you meant..

Thanks again, talk again soon

[dougspcs]

Sorry Fritz, one more question before I get started.

This is the starter culture I ordered from a supplier on Ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mesophilic-Cheese-Starter-Culture-FREE-100-PAGE-RECIPE-EBOOK-FREE-SHIPPING/111833107053?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

It doesn't identify by some of the specific mesophilic starters such as M030/031, etc...it seems more generic but still contains the same bacteria strains as the others.

Is this a suitable starter for me to use to get going? As I mentioned..cheddar, monterey jack, curds and probably colby will be my 1st efforts.

Sorry to keep pumping for knowledge..but I figure get all these basic questions out of the way to be sure I'm off to a good start. That way if a cheese flops I'll know it's something I did or didn't do and not the ingredients I used.

[awakephd]

Hi Doug, I'll add my welcome to the forum, echo everything Fritz has said, and offer an opinion on the culture you are asking about. This looks similar to Flora Danica, which only a little different from MM100 -- these are both "aromatic" culture blends, meaning that they have some varieties that add a buttery taste, a little extra cheesy aroma, and generate a small amount of gas. While this may or may not be the "ideal" blend to use for a given cheese, you can use it for pretty much anything that requires a mesophilic culture with good results.

[dougspcs]

Super thanks for the welcome and the advice..now would the "gas" or any other factor cause a problem for me if it's my intention to vacuum pack immediately after pressing for it's time in the cheese fridge? Should I open and repack during the aging to allow the cheese to "breathe" and not accumulate these gases?

I know I have a lot of questions..but this truly is my 1st time and I new ones keep popping into my head as I think thru the process.

Patience is much appreciated...

[reg]

Morning Doug and welcome to the forum.

Before vac packing you should probably wait for three to six weeks (depending on the cheese type) so that your cheese can dry. Many vac to soon and end up with a lot of moisture in the bag

[dougspcs]

Should I wrap in cheese cloth then into the cooler at 13'c then or completely open?

2nd, in small batch of 2lbs will this not draw out too much moisture and leave the cheese dry and crumbly after aging??

[awakephd]

The gas emitted by this "aromatic" culture will not be a problem with respect to the vac bagging; it is only a small amount that occurs during the early fermentation. At most you will get very small holes in the cheese.

As for how long to wait before vac-bagging - I do think it is good to wait "as long as possible" to let the cheese age & breathe naturally ... but I have been known to bag after a week or even a little less when circumstances dictated this course of action. If moisture collects in the bag, remove, dry for a few days, and re-bag.

The size of the make will certainly have an effect on quickly the cheese dries out - but another major factor is the humidity of the aging space. If your humidity is in the 85-90% range, you should be able to age the cheese fully without ever bagging it, and still not get too dry. My "cave," unfortunately, runs more like 60-70% humidity, so cheeses dry out faster, leading me to bag them to keep them from drying out too much.

No need to wrap in cheese cloth - just put in the cooler / "cave" at 13° or so.

[dougspcs]

Thanks all for your help and opinions ..

I'll be collecting some raw milk next week some time and will be eager to jump in!!

[Fritz]

Lol... I typed a reply, but didn't post it!
Pardon if the below sounds like what Andy posted....

Hey Doug,
If I may recommend: First off, when aging a cheese (after a day or so at room temperature on the counter after pressing), always age it (time, temp, method, maintenance during aging) as per recipe and as per cheese type.... most often, the first month or two requires that one "dries" out the cheese... but don't think of this as "aging" yet. This is a period of rind development and conditioning the cheese for the long aging process. This period requires a "maturing box" a Rubbermaid /Tupperware/lock-n-lock style box to more than comfortably holds the cheese (lots of wiggle room) in a (55*F or as per recipe fridge). I put 2 1/2 inch holes, one on either side so I can close the box lid.. the idea is that the box holds the enough moisture to keep the cheese from cracking on the outside and yet breaths enough to release the moisture from the cheese. The cheese is resting on a cheese mat or raised bottom to keep it from getting wet in the maturing box. The maturing box needs to be kept dry inside and wiped down daily. Prevent drips on the cheese, or bad things will happen (paper towel lightly resting on top of cheese to catch the drips)...the box should be about 85-95% RH. After about a month or two of this period, managing the moulds that will be growing by wiping it down with salt and vinegar. The cheese will have developed a thicker and sealed rind. The cheese will have had time for the cultures to finish doing its thing and begin the particular character of the cheese type. After a month or two, it is time to "food saver" cryovac the cheese for aging.

Hope that helps
F