Author Topic: Homogenized milk vs skimmed milk + cream  (Read 9057 times)

Offline stephmtl222

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Homogenized milk vs skimmed milk + cream
« on: November 20, 2017, 06:09:38 PM »
Hello,

Has anyone ever compared, for the same semi-hard or hard cheese, making it with homogenized milk vs with skimmed milk + cream ?
What difference, if any, have you seen on the texture ? Taste ?

Thanks !

Offline Al Lewis

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Re: Homogenized milk vs skimmed milk + cream
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2017, 06:24:19 PM »
It would depend on the fat content you were looking for for the cheese you are making.  For instance the Swiss use a 35% fat content to make Emmental.  For a triple cream Brie you would would the added fat.  Virtually all of the cheese I make is made with pasteurized homogenized whole milk.  Whether I use a mixture of 2% and whole milk depends on whether I'm making a low fat cheese.  Can't understand why you would want to buy skimmed milk and add cream as it would seem to be more expensive then using whole milk.
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Offline stephmtl222

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Re: Homogenized milk vs skimmed milk + cream
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2017, 06:39:43 PM »
Hello Al Lewis,

Thanks for the reply. The question is not really on how much cream to add to milk but is about asking if anybody saw any advantage of using skimmed milk + cream instead of homogenized milk.
I have been making cheese for a couple of years with homogenized milk, mainly because the very few milk that are unhomogenized are at least twice the price of homogenized milk. I'm pretty happy with the texture of my cheeses up to now but I know that unhomogenized milk is better for cheese making, especially for semi-hard and hard cheeses. So the idea is to potentially using skimmed milk + cream instead of homogenized milk. I haven't tested it yet but I was curious to see if anybody had compared results with these two milks approaches.
In term of price, it will be a little more expensive with skimmed + cream but I think it worth it for cheeses that age several months.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 06:46:13 PM by stephmtl222 »

Offline Al Lewis

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Re: Homogenized milk vs skimmed milk + cream
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2017, 09:38:39 PM »
Can't help you on that one.  If I want to make a special cheese I go to Blackjack Valley Farm, about 10 miles away, and but raw milk.  I usually add heavy cream to my homogenized milk for most cheeses.
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Re: Homogenized milk vs skimmed milk + cream
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2017, 10:15:17 PM »
Skim milk is still homogenized and almost all store bought cream is ultra-pasteurized. Not a great combination.

Offline stephmtl222

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Re: Homogenized milk vs skimmed milk + cream
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2017, 02:48:21 AM »
Thanks for your reply. Skimmed milk contains almost no fat so it cannot really be homogenized. If I add unhomogenized cream to skimmed milk, the fat globules will be bigger (~3.5µm) and more intact, resembling the state of the unhomogenized fat globules. I have asked the cream company if they homogenize their cream. There would be no point to add this cream to skimmed milk if it was homogenized to go back to the equivalent to homogenized milk. As for UHT pasteurisation of cream, not really a problem either since the vast majority of proteins would come from the HTST pasteurized skimmed milk so the curd should form as for HTST pasteurized milk, with some help from CaCl2.
If anybody has tried the cream + skimmed milk combination, I would be very interested to read your experience with that.
Otherwise, I will make the test with small cheeses when I have the time and come back to let you know if it worth it.

Addition - From Dairy processing handbook:
Products of high fat content are more difficult to homogenize and also more likely to show evidence of fat clumping, because the concentration of serum proteins is low in relation to the fat content. Usually, cream with higher fat content than 20 % cannot be homogenized at high pressure, because clusters are formed as a result of lack of membrane material (casein).
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 04:32:45 AM by stephmtl222 »

Offline GortKlaatu

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Re: Homogenized milk vs skimmed milk + cream
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2017, 05:01:10 AM »
Not exactly the same scenario, but I have added heavy (cow) cream to my raw goat milk when I wanted to make triple cream cheeses.
The results were great. But just as you'd expect, the larger cow fat globules have a quick tendency to want to separate (as you'd expect in non-homogenized milk) so you have to stir occasionally during culture ripening up to the point of rennet to avoid a layer of fatty cream separating. And if you have an especially long flocculation time it can become apparent again as you'll have curds that do not have uniformity of fat distribution.

Somewhere, some long time ago, milk decided to reach toward immortality… and to call itself cheese.

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Re: Homogenized milk vs skimmed milk + cream
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2017, 08:19:54 AM »
In my part of the world all store bought cream is UHT.

Offline Al Lewis

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Re: Homogenized milk vs skimmed milk + cream
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2017, 05:07:40 PM »
Skim milk is still homogenized and almost all store bought cream is ultra-pasteurized. Not a great combination.
  I have found that Albertsons stores sell both.  The one in the red container is Ultra Pasteurized whereas the one in the yellow is not.  At least at our store.  I still check the labels. :o
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Offline stephmtl222

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Re: Homogenized milk vs skimmed milk + cream
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2017, 08:32:50 PM »
Thanks Al Lewis.
Here, I am lucky enough to have a non UHT, non homogenized (I assume... ) cream without any additive.
I'm thinking of what cheese I will test it with. Tomme would be nice but takes 8L per test and takes at least 2 1/2 months to see the results. Probably mozzarella and test meltabilty. :)

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Re: Homogenized milk vs skimmed milk + cream
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2017, 10:26:08 PM »
How do you know that is not UHT cream?  It just says pasteurized on the label.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 03:49:31 AM by Duntov »

Offline stephmtl222

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Re: Homogenized milk vs skimmed milk + cream
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2017, 11:22:22 PM »
I assume that if this cream would be UHT, it would be written UHT pasteurized instead of just pasteurized, although, I know, there is still a chance that it is even if it is not written on the label. I wrote to the producer of this cream a couple of days ago to know if it was UHT or homogenized but still haven't got an answer.
But the most important is that it is not homogenized, because that is what I want tibadd to my milk : un-homogenized fat globules. Not sure what imoact UHT pasteurization would have on its behavior in my HTST pasteurized skim milk.

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Re: Homogenized milk vs skimmed milk + cream
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2017, 03:56:42 AM »
Being UHT is the bigger problem.  But cream being cream does not actually need to be homogonized.

Offline Al Lewis

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Re: Homogenized milk vs skimmed milk + cream
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2017, 07:22:20 AM »
It makes great cheese!! ;D
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Re: Homogenized milk vs skimmed milk + cream
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2017, 02:31:37 PM »
It makes great cheese!! ;D

I have used UHT cream mixed with good quality milk and have had no problems so I would agree.  But in general UHT is more of a problem than being homogonized.