Author Topic: A host of newbie questions...  (Read 4401 times)

iCheese

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A host of newbie questions...
« on: July 10, 2009, 06:56:33 AM »
I made my first cheese tonight. I was very excited and during the process I think I found more questions than answers. Not knowing where to turn I rushed out here to find you fine people.

First!

I was making queso blanc cheese and the recipe said to heat the milk to between 185 and 195. It warned against making boiling and so I started out really slow.

However, it just didn't seem to be making it to the desired temperature so I turned up the heat. When it reached 190 I turned down the heat again while I went to add the Vinegar and suddenly I noticed it was boiling. I was very irritated with myself.

Should I have turned off the heat completely? When you are ripening the milk how do you maintain temperature or adjust it so that it doesn't fluctuate too high or low? Can I just take it off the heat or do I have to learn how to maintain heat while I do other things to the milk?

Secondly!
The recipe called for ladeling out the curd and while I was doing so I was wondering about the whey. I seemed to have a LOT left. Is that because of my temperature issues? Would more vinegar have made more curd?

I'm so VERY new to this and I appreciate any help! I am really excited about getting more into it and learning as much as I can.

Cheese Head

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Re: A host of newbie questions...
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2009, 05:55:40 PM »
iCheese

Uneven warming and overshooting when heating milk directly in stockpot on stove is quite common, at least I've overshot a couple times >:(. Temp control during this phase is tough thus if you look in the Equipment - Making Cheese Board you'll see people using double boiler stock pots on stove with water or stock pot in sink with hot water from tap (not for temp you were going to) and other systems (including Wayne's latest huge system)! Me, I use single stockpot on gas stove with digital thermometer but it is tough to control, even with turning ring off/on low for short bursts while I'm doing other stuff. Gas is I think better than electric for minimizing hot spots, but I still stir frequently to minimize them, not ideal.

Having a lot of whey is normal, for small volumes I just discard down sink, but for large volumes you can make whey based Ricotta etc.

pamaples

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Re: A host of newbie questions...
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2009, 11:57:12 PM »
I have a gas stove and I usually stack one burner grate on top of another over the flame. Actually, It goes like this: gas burner and grate; round steel plate (1/4 inch thick); another burner cover grate; pan with milk. I find that makes a great heat shield/spreader and heats the milk quite slowly. I wonder about fuel efficiency though and am going to look into the crock pot heating technique.

I always make ricotta from the whey and freeze it. I have quite a lot now, and one of these days I will have a canoli party!

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: A host of newbie questions...
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2009, 06:18:50 AM »
iCheese-

I find a double boiler or water bather very helpful when making cheese. I recently switched to a chaffing dish and love it!

You can also set the milk out for an hour or so to prewarm it to reduce the heating time. If you use a water bath as John mensioned you can use tap water to heat the milk and add or remove enough water to keep it at the desired temperature.

There are many things you can do with the whey but first let's get you comfortable with making the cheese. ENjoy!

iCheese

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Re: A host of newbie questions...
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2009, 05:57:06 PM »
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm really hoping to get more experienced at adjusting the temperature.

When the milk gets to the desired temp do you have to try to maintain that temp on the stove or can you just remove it from the heat? Does it have to be on the heat at that desired temp to effectively make the cheese?

I haven't really figured that part out. Most recipes just say ripen to x-temperature they never say whether to keep the milk at that temp or whether it's okay to remove it from the heat or not.

 ???

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: A host of newbie questions...
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2009, 06:57:53 PM »
More often than not  if a recipe says go to a certain temperature if they don't say remove from heat - maintain that temperature until they say to change it.

minifig

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Re: A host of newbie questions...
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2009, 02:21:41 AM »
As for a double boiler, what do I need to do to keep the heat from the burner from being too direct? 

The sink method that I hear about won't work for me, would it work to put an enamel bowl under the pot, and put water in it from the kettle, or would I be able to put that directly on the burner?

Thanks

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: A host of newbie questions...
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2009, 03:38:59 AM »
Do you have a slightly larger pot that is big enough to hold your cheese pot?
Or maybe a big bucket? You can just put the heated or cooled water in the container that will hold your pot or whatever you make your cheese in.

Unless you are using raw milk and are pasteurizing the milk you won't need to get the milk/curds any hotter than 114°F. In most cases not much over 90°F. So the container that holds the hot water doesn't need to be heavy duty. You could use anything that will hold your "cheese vat" and enough water to heat the milk. I make cheese on the counter near the sink and just siphon out what I no longer want and use the sprayer thingy to add hotter or colder water to the "bath" as needed.xz

wharris

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Re: A host of newbie questions...
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2009, 03:45:16 AM »
I think it was likespace who said it best.  Cheesemaking is all about managing the subtleties.  Temperature control is one of those things that sounds easy, but is really really hard.

I started off (and am currently doing with my new system), by just using a pot of water as a double boiler.  I used water inside my vat as practice. 
Try to maintain a specific temp.  like 153 deg.  (not 152, not 154).  Its not easy, but it can be done.
Then, try to maintain a specific temperature change.  like 2deg over 5 min, or 3 degrees over 5 min.

Work on your technique with water first.  That way, when you over shoot, or fail to raise 3 deg in 5 min. you only risk some water.

Its funny how the simplest things are the hardest part of cheesemaking.


When you master this, then its off to pH, then humidity, then cave temp..  (it never really stops.....)

good luck...

Cheese Head

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Re: A host of newbie questions...
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2009, 03:49:57 AM »
minifig, when I use a double boiler water jacket system, I just use two stockpots, one larger than the other. Pictures here. The handles of the smaller one keep the bottom of that pot about 1/2"/1 cm above the bigger one and keep it centered with about 1 1/2"/1 cm gap around the sides. It's that 1 cm that is filled with water and stops the heat from my stove from being directly onto the milk.

minifig

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Re: A host of newbie questions...
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2009, 03:53:33 AM »
minifig, when I use a double boiler water jacket system, I just use two stockpots, one larger than the other. Pictures here. The handles of the smaller one keep the bottom of that pot about 1/2"/1 cm above the bigger one and keep it centered with about 1 1/2"/1 cm gap around the sides. It's that 1 cm that is filled with water and stops the heat from my stove from being directly onto the milk.


That sounds like what I had in mind.  When you do this, would you be able to put the outer pot on a burner, or would you still have to add hot+cold water?

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: A host of newbie questions...
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2009, 04:03:55 AM »
And this is the easy part ... aging is the toughest part I think.

First you have to not eat the cheese - that can  be very hard sometimes, then you have to maintain the right temperatures (again) and humidity is always a challenge it changes almost daily. New cheeses are damp so they contain moisture and add humidity as they age and dry they no longer add humidity so you have to add it.

Then there's fighting off the molds that want to grow that you don't want and keeping the ones you do. Gets tricky but that is sometimes what makes it fun - the challenges and the rewards!

Cheese Head

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Re: A host of newbie questions...
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2009, 04:20:22 AM »
minifig, I put outer pot on burner, add fixed water, add next pot (it floats) add milk, add more water to fill annualr volume, turn burner on low and watch temp climb.

minifig

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Re: A host of newbie questions...
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2009, 04:13:45 AM »
minifig, I put outer pot on burner, add fixed water, add next pot (it floats) add milk, add more water to fill annualr volume, turn burner on low and watch temp climb.

Awesome, that sounds exactly like what I had in mind, thank you.

Only one more question: what is "annualr volume"?

Cheese Head

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Re: A host of newbie questions...
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2009, 04:12:08 AM »
minifig, sorry mistype, annular volume, just the circular volume between the two stockpots. When you add the milk, that pot will sink and water level will rise. Probably easier to measure the volume of water so in future you can just use that amount.

But frankly I don't normally use a double boiler, (I'm bad).