Author Topic: Cheese Rinds - Propagating Culture From  (Read 1454 times)

Offline tedstertm

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Cheese Rinds - Propagating Culture From
« on: July 13, 2009, 01:23:56 PM »
I read multiple arguments for and against this and want to hear some feedback about it, mostly from the people who have succeeded at it.

How fresh does the cheese have to be?
What's the best method for extraction?
How often can you be successful at this?
Is it too much effort should I just go for the packaged culture?


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Offline Wayne Harris

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Re: Cheese Rinds - Propagating Culture From
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2009, 02:33:26 PM »
I've often thought about this. 

The only reason I have ever wanted to try this, is because I did not know what types of starter cultures where being used by my favorite goudas. (I would love to  be able to make a Rembrandt or Beemster type gouda)

Here is the issue as I see it. Acidification of the cheesemilk during initial ripening is a critical critical step in cheesemaking.  The problem, as I see it, is that if you try and use a starter culture based on an existing cheese, the relative strength or capabilities of that starter culture will be wildly unpredictable. You may never develope the required acid levels or it may take too long to achieve the required pH drop. And if you are trying to coordinate the pH drop with a cooking schedule, you may end up over-cooking the curds as you wait for the required pH drop.

For me, my efforts and time are better spent with predictable DVI cultures that are pristine in nature.  I can tweak my recipes to include different cultures, or combinations of cultures in order to achieve the taste, texture and aroma i am looking for.

But hey,  These are just my thoughts. I have never actually tried to do this.  I have only managed to talk myself out of it.

Wayne A. Harris - in vino veritas

Offline linuxboy

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Re: Cheese Rinds - Propagating Culture From
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2009, 05:13:32 PM »
How fresh does the cheese have to be?

Depends on the amount of initial bacteria, affinage temp, strength of proteolytic enzymes, etc. In general, you can culture species from a rind effectively for years, and easily for up to 6 months. But it varies. If you have a culture sample and do an agar smear, even 2-3 bacteria can quickly grow to a very sizeable colony.

What's the best method for extraction?

Commercially, you try to isolate the purest culture you can on an agar smear, repeating until the colony is sizeable, then you multiply the colony in liquid nutritional agar, centrifuge, and store the sample. Storage depends on species. Often, freezing with glycerin is used so the frozen water crystals do less damage to cell walls.

At home, if you want rind flora on a cheese, you can try the method Francois posted, which is to take a piece of rind, start with a tomme recipe, and then introduce the rind flora to the cheese.

How often can you be successful at this?

Hard to say. Microbiology isn't easy. Isolating pure culture isn't easy, either. You can have contamination, competing species, bacteriophages, penicillin molds that kill bacteria you want, etc. In general, if you have a good lab, and a lot of technical experience, you can isolate the cultures you want, both from cheese and rind.

Is it too much effort should I just go for the packaged culture?

That's something you need to figure out. Some cheese factories keep a lab on premise and culture their own starters, making sure to follow proper species rotation, bacteriophage control, etc. It's expensive... a bit cheaper if you want just the rind flora because it finds its own equilibrium. If you wanted to produce lactic acid strains, that's more difficult because you can't just culture multiple strains all at once. Each strain has specific growth characteristics. For example, for meso bacteria, some multiply more rapidly at 80 degrees, and others at 90. If you want a specific blend, you have to culture separately and blend to get the profile you want.

If you want to replicate rind and don't have a lab I would suggest:

1) take a piece of existing rind that has not dried out and exhibits active growth (15-45 days old)
2) Puree rind with some milk and add a little nutritional yeast.
3) Let that sit in a warm (90 degree) place for 2-6 hours. Strain out solids.
4) Take the culture and freeze in small ice cubes. If you make cheese often, can also store in the fridge and reculture the mother solution.

Then when you make your cheeses, take out a cube, dissolve in some water, and spray your cheeses with the solution.

If you have a lab, there are better ways of going about it using agar and centrifuging. Oh and the simplest way is to take a piece of rind that has blooming molds/bacteria and put it in contract with the new cheese. This works well for candidum strains.
Taking an extended leave (until 2015) from the forums to build out my farm and dairy. Please e-mail or PM if you need anything.