Curd Cutter - Wayne's Build

[linuxboy]

IIRC the mechanized one I posted was for a bigger model with more disks, larger capacity, and larger HP motor, but they work on the same principles.

[Sailor Con Queso]

Here is how our girls  do "milling" today.

Looks great Joe. I like the milling "machine". Definitely a step up from my eggcrate.

A couple of comments: Your curds are flattening out like a pancake, so they look really moist to me. If this is a cheddar, they're too moist.

You might consider using the back of a plastic spoon to push the curds through the mill. Faster, easier on the hands, and less direct human contact and contamination. A fancy machine might be faster, but you can mill a lot of curds with that setup.

[linuxboy]

You might consider using the back of a plastic spoon to push the curds through the mill. Faster, easier on the hands, and less direct human contact and contamination. A fancy machine might be faster, but you can mill a lot of curds with that setup.

Agree with Sailor that those curds should be firmer. Those curds look like they will give you a >40% moisture in the cheese, which is too high for a cheddar.

Also, you could use a thick plastic cutting board cut to size to push the curds through. It's not exactly automated, but you could really get a lot of curd through that manual mill if you could push down uniformly with a follower.

[Groves]

Rolling pin. Back and forth.

[Sailor Con Queso]

During milling, curds are potentially subject to major contamination, so whatever you use to press the curds needs to be super clean and sanitized - spoons, cutting board, rolling pin... and especially hands. A quick soap and water wash is not enough. If you don't have Star San or another sanitizer I would use a bleach solution for hands and rinse well with clean water before coming into contact with the curds. The milling rack itself needs to be sanitized before and after use.

[coffee joe]

Thanks for the input from all.
The rolling pin, food grade nylon, has already been ordered because sooner or later we were going to have red curds. As to the sanitizing, we boil the mill before and after use and for hands, we use soap water and then alcohol gel. Frequently during the entire make.

What most interests me is the comments on moisture in the curd. What previous step is going wrong? We salt right after milling then right to the press. Not much comes out in terms of whey in pressing. about 18 Kg on an 8"wheel for 20 Min then turn over and go to 70 Kg for 24 hours then turn again, change cloths, for another 24 hours, dry for 3 days before wax or vacuum. 

[linuxboy]

Moisture in the curd has to do with how much rennet you use and the time the curd sets before you cut it combined with the size of the curds. That's the primary indicator and why we tend to advocate using a flocculation method of timing when to cut curd. That's not the only indicator, though. More fat in the milk tends to make for a more moist cheese because the curds release whey slower. A curd with lower pH that's built up more acidity will retain whey better than curd that has a high pH.

And the total solids matter. When you have higher solids (higher proteins, like you find in late lactation milk), the curds can be cut a little bigger, but cooked for less time because it will take less time to reach the final moisture content of the curd. So for example compare mid lactation milk to late lactation. If you cut curd made from mid lactation milk to smaller size, and cook it longer, it will have the same final moisture as curd cut a little bigger but cooked for less time for curd made with late lactation milk. Make sense? It's all about the relative moisture in the curd compared to the solids in the curd when you settle the curd under whey and start draining off the whey to pack your cheddar slabs.

High moisture cheddar isn't terrible, but it's closer to something like a colby in style. It will mature sooner and reach its peak sooner, and not last as long at peak.

To get a more solid curd you can

- Use floc method and lower multiplier (3x is a good number, adjust from there)
- Cut curd to smaller size, cheddar should be about 3/8" cubes
- Cook longer before settling under whey (challenge, because have to hit the whey drain target of 6.0-6.1)
- pre-salt curd at a rate of .5% w/w to help the curd release whey (this is not a common approach)

hope that helps!

[Sailor Con Queso]

Joe - are you doing stirred curd or traditional cheddaring?

Cheddar and most salted curd cheeses are difficult to press and eliminate air spaces so 70 kg (154 pounds) is a little light for an 8" wheel. I consider 5 psi a minimum and 10 psi (or more) the recommended pressing for an aged cheddar depending on how tight you want the body of your cheese to be. On an 8" hoop, you need 275 pounds (124 kg) to achieve just 5.5 psi. You need 503 pounds or 228 kg to press at 10 psi. With 70kg (154 pounds) you are only pressing at 3 psi. That may be why you aren't getting much whey out during pressing. You need to be aggressive with cheddar, so I would also start out with much more than 18 kg. I personally feel that starting with lower weights to avoid "trapping" whey in a cheese is something of a myth. You should not have to press for more than 12 hours.

How does the rest of the world express psi in the metric system??? kg/sq cm ?)

[FarmerJd]

How does the rest of the world express psi in the metric system??? kg/sq cm ?)

pascals or kilopascals


1 pascal = 1 newton/sq m
1 Kpa  =  1000 N/ sq m
1 psi = about 6.9 Kpa


The U. of Guelph site posts some of their pressures in Kpa.

[coffee joe]

Saior,
as to units we use bioth psi and Kg/cm², PSI will be just fine. since I've made all recopies in US units except volume 

As to the rest  of the post, I will be starting from the beginning to review everything. The intent is cheddar, let me get this down, we'll get to colby later.

Coul the fact that I start with Warm Raw Milk and let it cool to 86F make a difference?

We are using recultured mother culture that is over 1 year reculturing  every other week.
By coincidence, yesterday's make was the first make using DVI M101 from Cheesemakers, I did like the cut from our mother culture better
REnnet is veggie but I have ordered both animal and CHYMAX M we do have it here

We are going on floc time X3
pH meter waiting for a Ride down from Kirkland!
after cutting the curd, cook for 20 min just barely lifting off the bottom to avoid matting
@ 86F slowly raising temp 2 F every 5 min during another 35 min continue to lift off to avoid matting
@ 100F drain whey -I use a Sifon for most of the whey and pour the mass into cheescloth to drip for 10-15 min,
Slice the slabs, place in the vat @ 100F turn and rearrange every 15 min for 2 hours (8X)
Mill   10mm pieces is about 3/8 and the spaces on our mill
Salt  22 gm salt/10 liter milk
Press  20 min at 18Kg Turn over in mold
           70 Kg 24hour remove replace cloth turn over and press again 24 hour
           Increase the weight no problem, 300 KG easy, was there felt like I was abusing the cheese!

[BigCheese]

I personally feel that starting with lower weights to avoid "trapping" whey in a cheese is something of a myth.

Glad to hear you sya that as I have generally found that to be the case too!

[FarmerJd]

@ 86F slowly raising temp 2 F every 5 min during another 35 min continue to lift off to avoid matting
@ 100F drain whey -I use a Sifon for most of the whey and pour the mass into cheescloth to drip for 10-15 min,

I always hold at this temp (102F) for another 45 min or better until the ph is right. Most of the recipes I have seen do this. This is a critical ph point so without a meter, you have to go by the clock and hope for the best. This one ph measurement for me changed my cheese making from frequent failure to consistent success.
I am thinking this could this be the problem with the curd texture? linux or sailor could elaborate I'm sure.

Coul the fact that I start with Warm Raw Milk and let it cool to 86F make a difference?

It doesn't affect mine. It shouldn't take that long to cool. I mix fresh with cold milk from day before. I usually only drop the temp to 90 before adding culture.

[Sailor Con Queso]

I agree JD. A low acidity (high pH) could certainly contribute to the curd problems.

Joe - Cheddar should be around pH 5.4 at milling. If you do not have a pH meter I would follow JDs advice. He makes a lot of big Cheddars. This is a good case for when a pH meter can really help you understand what's going on.

Every starter culture is different and creates lactic acid at different rates. So, you REALLY can't go by simple time based recipes. You have to know what the starter is doing and how it effects the cheese. In your case, using a propagated culture that is even more important. Over time you are bound to have mutations, contamination and phage activity. If you are not freezing the mother culture, the milk substrate will build up too much acid and start killing off the bacteria. Then from batch to batch you will have inconsistent bacterial activity. You need to develop a strategy and protocol for rotating pure starter cultures back into your production. In another thread, we have been talking about "primer" cultures instead of Mother cultures. A primer is made fresh every time with enough to do whatever size batch. Whereas a Mother culture is a larger volume that can be drawn from multiple times. I like the primer idea because I feel it is easier to maintain the quality of a pure starter culture.

[wharris]

Some relevant information with respect to mechanical openess.
From stuff I read.

[Sailor Con Queso]

Interesting conclusions Wayne. However, I find that smaller curds (1/2") seem to meld better during pressing.