Author Topic: clherestian & Alex's Semi-Lactic Cow's Milk Cheese  (Read 12278 times)

Alex

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Re: clherestian & Alex's Semi-Lactic Cow's Milk Cheese
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2009, 11:58:59 AM »
Alex, above you said:
Quote
Add starter culture: EZAL MA series or MM series cultures are used. The EZAL MA series makes a tangy lactic curd and the MM series provides additional flavor from the L. diacetylactis and Leuconostoc bacteria (Mesophilic) added to the mix. ( I always use buttermilk as a meso starter).
For others, Ezal was a Rhodia Food Brand, Rhodia was bought by Danisco in 2004, so my MM100 mesophilic starter culture that I bought in USA is badged under Danisco's Choozit Brand, although I think Danisco is still selling it under the Ezal Brand label depending on where you are in the world.

Anyhoo, few questions:
  • Just so I get it straight, are you saying you can use a manufactured culture or buttermilk like you do, not both right?
  • In your recipe/procedure, is the mold draining time on top of the hanging time?
  • You say to turn the cheeses in mold yet for both yours and clherestian's I only see pictures of conical non-turned cheeses, normally when I turn I get a more cylindrical shape, or is the cheese that soft?
  • Lastly, we have our house air conditioner set here in humid Houston summer for 25C/77F (actually 78 in day 76 at night). Is this too high and I risk "gas formation and excessive moisture loss" and therefore should I wait until colder weather before trying?

TIA, John.


The recipe is one I found anywhere, I don't remember, and I use it as a reference.
Cultures: I never used manufactured cultures, only store bought buttermilk or yogurt. Of course you have to use only one of them, the manufactured or buttermilk.
The mold draining time is on top of the hanging time.
Turning the cheeses: Not always turning is needed, it seems due to the earlier draining when hung. Have a tip: I use to shape the fheese with my hands after unmoulding.
25C is fine for the rippening stage (@24 C for 15-20 hours) and the hung drying. In the summer we have here simmilar temps. Usualy I keep the cheeses in moulds about 24 hours untill I see no more dripping (up to 48 hours).

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: clherestian & Alex's Semi-Lactic Cow's Milk Cheese
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2009, 12:22:03 AM »
Ah okay so keeping them in the cups for 2 days to drain was not overly excessive. I had had mine out of the cups for about 24 hours and since salting with the salt shaker they are feeling damp yet again.

clherestian

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Re: clherestian & Alex's Semi-Lactic Cow's Milk Cheese
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2009, 02:15:13 AM »
I noticed someone asked where the recipe is from. It is from P. Dixon's website:

http://www.dairyfoodsconsulting.com/recipes_lactic.shtml

Also, here are some update pics of my cheeses. These are the ones without the added ingredients, and they are about two weeks old. I used geo 13 instead of p. candidum like Alex, so that is why our rinds look so different.

There is one curious thing happening. Before the curds were fully set, I skimmed off most of the cream, but I didn't get it all. Then I aged my cheeses on plastic matting and didn't turn them, so they they didn't develop rinds on the bottoms.  Now a substance that I take to be the remaining cream is leaking from the cheeses from under the bottom edge of the rind. I just wipe it up daily.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 02:26:02 AM by clherestian »

Alex

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Re: clherestian & Alex's Semi-Lactic Cow's Milk Cheese
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2009, 02:59:00 AM »
It seems that you are right about the recipe's source, as I said, I couldn't remember. I do not skim the milk for this cheese, I use 3.5-3.8% raw milk.
Anyway, strange looking cheeses (for me, as I never used Geo 13), let us know how they taste.

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: clherestian & Alex's Semi-Lactic Cow's Milk Cheese
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2009, 12:03:25 AM »
Ah I have that recipe in my database I though it looked familuar. Never tried it though - I will.

FRANCOIS

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Re: clherestian & Alex's Semi-Lactic Cow's Milk Cheese
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2009, 12:17:39 AM »
clherestian,
Judging from the photos, it's not cream leaking out, but liquified cheese.  It appears as though you have a thick yeast rind, caused normally by insufficient drying or excessive humidity during the early days of aging.  If it is toad skin the rind will get skin like and when you grab the cheese it will "slip"  off the interior cheese.  Once this happens there's no going back.  The resulting cheese is very strong with heavy ammonia.

siegfriedw

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Re: clherestian & Alex's Semi-Lactic Cow's Milk Cheese
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2009, 12:49:48 PM »
Francois description is exactly what happened to my first few batches of Crottin - and I am pretty sure it was due to insufficient drying before aging.

clherestian

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Re: clherestian & Alex's Semi-Lactic Cow's Milk Cheese
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2009, 01:54:04 PM »
I believe it was liquid cheese. I cut one of these open last night, and there was liquid cheese under top of the rind, too. The rind doesn't slip completely off the cheese, but it is too loose.

Francois -
You are probably right that the cheese didn't reach sufficient dryness. I think I can remedy that by hanging it a bit longer. I also might have put too much geo in the milk - about 1/8 tsp for 2 gallons of milk. Next time I will cut in half. What do you think? You are probably also right that the cheese is being aged in too moist of an environment. They are aging in the same container as my washed rind cheeses - about 95% humidity. What humidity should these fresh geo 13 rind cheeses be aged at?

FRANCOIS

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Re: clherestian & Alex's Semi-Lactic Cow's Milk Cheese
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2009, 08:51:32 PM »
I am actually struggling with the same issue myself.  We have some trial cheese that are crotin like and the room we use for aging is the most humid room in the plant.  We use it because it's one of the only rooms with no or few blue cheeses in it.  Unfortunately I have to watch the cheese like a hawk and constantly roll the racks from chiller to chiller to get things growing but not let the geo get out of hand.  The cheese spent last night in a dry cool chiller, which I thought would work to keep the geo down but it got too cold overnight.  There wasn't a high enough temp for the molds to pop up.  I moved the rack to a warm, dry room (for swiss) and heopfully that will arrest the geo until the mold gets growing.  As you all have discovered, once that rumply yeast gets a foot hold it's impossible to turn back.  Right now it's just starting on the bottoms of these cheeses, fingers crossed I don't have to remake these damn little things.

Now you all know why I hate making these frilly little things.

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: clherestian & Alex's Semi-Lactic Cow's Milk Cheese
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2009, 10:50:55 PM »
Well they are a PITA for what you get. They look cute though. Does it have to be tiny? I mean could you make like a 3 pound crottin? Probably be imposible to drain though huh?

FRANCOIS

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Re: clherestian & Alex's Semi-Lactic Cow's Milk Cheese
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2009, 11:56:36 PM »
It's not impossible, it's called humboldt fog.

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: clherestian & Alex's Semi-Lactic Cow's Milk Cheese
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2009, 01:58:26 AM »
Ah you must like that stuff you've mensioned it twice now. I think I was an advertisment for it online somehwhere.

FRANCOIS

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Re: clherestian & Alex's Semi-Lactic Cow's Milk Cheese
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2009, 02:18:43 AM »
It's my all time favorite cheese.  So simple but so incredibly complex at the same time.  I know how to make it but I can't imagine having to do it, it must be technically very, very difficult.  They must have a trick to draining it.

Imagine a 5# cake of chevre covered in white mold.  It has an ash layer through the center, but that is unimportant to me.  The taste is one of the best chevs I've ever had but the format is just astonishing.

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Re: clherestian & Alex's Semi-Lactic Cow's Milk Cheese
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2009, 04:35:14 AM »
I will have to look for this. You make it sound delicious!

siegfriedw

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Re: clherestian & Alex's Semi-Lactic Cow's Milk Cheese
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2009, 11:34:30 AM »
It is delicious. I have had it and also a similar small version from an NC cheesemaker - she doesn't call it the same name but it is very similar.

I just had to toss another batch of crottins due to the rind problems discussed above  so I am getting frustrated to but I have a ready source of milk so I will keep trying.  I need to get this down before I get licensed.