Author Topic: John's Cheese #017 - Gruyere #1 & Scott's Gruyere #1  (Read 3684 times)

Offline John (CH)

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John's Cheese #017 - Gruyere #1 & Scott's Gruyere #1
« on: June 21, 2008, 02:48:46 PM »
Wanted to try something different, using the same idea as my and DD's blue cheese making, will use a piece of store bought Aged Gruyere Cheese and combination 1/3 meso & 2/3 thermophilic starter cultures. Mystery, intrigue, yes, we'll only find out how similar to real Gruyere it is 2 months, if I can wait that long.

JUN 21, 2008
  • 2:00PM Poured 3 US gallons/11.4 liters of Homogenized Pasteurized Whole Cow's Milk into large stockpot on stove, warmed slowly on lowest heat to 90 F/32 C.
  • 2:30PM Added 4 mesophilic starter ice cubes & 8 thermophilic ice cubes.
  • 2:45PM Ice cubes melted, added diluted calcium chloride and whisked in thoroughly, set aside to ripen.
  • 3:45PM Whisked in diluted rennet, warmed back to 90 F/32 C, set aside to allow curd to set.
  • 5:30PM Clean break, cut curds, started raising temp slowly to 114 F/46 C as per DD''s recipe.
  • 6:00PM Cut curds finely using whisk, continued cooking curds.
  • 7:00PM Separated curds and whey. Blendered 1 ounce/59 grams aged Gruyere cheese with little water, added to dry curds, mixed by hand, placed in press and started pressing with light pressure.
  • 7:450PM Turned cheese and continued pressing with light weight (1.5 liter wine bottle).
  • 8:45PM Started pressing overnight with 50 lb/23 kg only as ran out of weights.

JUN 22, 2008
  • 8:30AM Turned cheese for second 12 hour heavy pressing.
  • 11:30AM Very little whey coming out with second pressing, removed and salted rind and placed in humidity control plastic box in household fridge to start drying stage.

DRYING & AGING
  • June 23, 2008 Found small amount of water in bottom of plastic humidity control box, think salt is dehydrating the cheese.
  • June 24-July 5, 2008 Placed cheese in freezer Cheese Cave and turned daily, replaced mat with new clean one every few days.
  • July 6, 2008 Cheese aged 14 days, cheese is slightly soft thus still moist in middle. Oiled the previously salted rind with olive oil and placed back in freezer Cheese Cave.



NOTES
  • My idea of blendering small piece of gruyere to create a gruyere culture did not work as well as when did same with blue cheese as gruyere much harder and thus slurry was lumpier, better next time if fine grate hard cheese first.
  • Need to plan further ahead, did not have adequate weights for super heavy pressing.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 08:54:33 AM by Cheese Head »


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Offline John (CH)

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Re: John's Cheese #017 - Gruyere #1
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2008, 02:50:24 PM »
Pictures here . . .
« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 08:48:32 AM by Cheese Head »

Offline DaggerDoggie

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Re: John's Cheese #017 - Gruyere #1
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2008, 03:05:50 PM »
Now that's funny.  I had to go to town this morning and so I picked up four gallons of whole milk and basically followed this recipe http://www.cheesemaking.com/store/pg/24.html

I happened to have some proprionic acid in my sausage making supplies...I have no idea what it is used for as it was unopened and I never used it.  I'm sure it was for some sausage recipe that I never made and is long forgotten. 

I made the cheese in between making mowing the lawn and it is now pressing.  I am 48lbs right now and plan to go up as high as I can.  His recipe calls for final pressing at 200lbs and his cheese is a lot bigger, I will go as high as I can.  My last cheese, reg's alpine cheese, I pressed at over 100lbs and it came out nicely, it still have a few small voids on the side.  Not sure why and not sure what I have to increase the weight other than a 12-ton hydraulic press in the garage.

Good luck on your cheese, CH.  Perhaps I should have started my own thread...sorry. :D

Offline John (CH)

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Re: John's Cheese #017 - Gruyere #1
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2008, 03:34:18 PM »
Yep that is very coincidental! But for yours you used manufactured culture and I'm going to use some store bought gruyere so we'll have a good A-B comparison! No problem, on threadjacking, one thread, same cheeses, two people and two recipes. Let me know if you want to add your records here and I'll change the OP Title to both our cheeses . . .

Offline DaggerDoggie

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Re: John's Cheese #017 - Gruyere #1
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2008, 03:38:18 PM »
I'm curious as to how you cultured the Gruyere.  With my blue, it was easy since it is a soft cheese and penicillin is easy to grow.  What did you do to culture it and add it to your curd?


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Offline John (CH)

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Re: John's Cheese #017 - Gruyere #1
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2008, 03:48:44 PM »
Good question, it is reasonably hard, so the only idea I had was to stick it in a blender with little water and make a slurry and then mix it in with curds after they are reasonably dry and hope for th best. Similar to what I did with my blue cheese, although it tasted great, it didn't look great :'(. Problem is I have yet to buy any cultures, I need to do so.

Offline DaggerDoggie

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Re: John's Cheese #017 - Gruyere #1
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2008, 04:37:36 PM »
Well, it sounds like that should work.  I'm not sure what proprionic acid is...I do know it's supposed to make the little holes in the cheese.  Ok, did a Google search...looks like it is used for a lot of things.  Mechanism of Propionic Acid Formation by Propionibacterium pentosaceum...to intense for me at the moment.

Here's my press sitting very precariously.  I can't find anything substantial to add more weight, but I think I am at 148lbs.  I'll flip it one more time tonight before I go to bed.  I considered taking the front weights off my tractor, but then thought better of that. ;D
« Last Edit: June 21, 2008, 04:39:30 PM by DaggerDoggie »

Offline reg

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Re: John's Cheese #017 - Gruyere #1 & Scott's Gruyere #1
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2008, 07:43:27 AM »
man this is interesting reading guys !!! can't wait to hear about and see the results.

as far as i know Gruyere is an alpine style cheese so this really has my interest peaked

reg
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Offline DaggerDoggie

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Re: John's Cheese #017 - Gruyere #1 & Scott's Gruyere #1
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2008, 08:27:57 AM »
Reg, the process and ingredients are almost identical to your Alpine cheese.  The major difference, with mine at least, was the addition of proprionic acid and a scald point of 8 degrees lower (114 degrees F.)

Offline DaggerDoggie

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Re: John's Cheese #017 - Gruyere #1 & Scott's Gruyere #1
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2008, 03:22:27 PM »
John, it looks like your cheese wheel came out great.  I still like the way you get the nice, rounded corners, at least on one side.

It's about time for me to take mine out.

Just took my Gruyere out of the press.  Mine had been pressing for over twenty-hours at around 148lbs.  What is interesting, my last, very similar cheese wheel, Reg's Alpine cheese was pressed at about 120lbs.  Both are 6 1/2" wheels,  The Alpine came out at 3 1/4" with three gallons of milk and the Gruyere just came out at 2 3/4" with four gallons of milk,  While the press weight was about 20% higher, I am surprised the wheel came out smaller with 25% more milk.  I used the same brand of milk as well.

It is very dense, however and will sit in the brine for 24 hours.

« Last Edit: June 22, 2008, 04:07:24 PM by DaggerDoggie »


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Offline John (CH)

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Re: John's Cheese #017 - Gruyere #1 & Scott's Gruyere #1
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2008, 04:49:34 PM »
Mine I think will be more of a softer Gruyere, if my 1 ounce does it's trick that is. Yours is going to be a true I expect very aged Gruyere as very very dense even compared to Reg's Apline dense cheese, I think partly the cooking and partly the extra weight & time.

Age it a year in the bottom of your new Cheese Cave, then voila, you can make lots of your favorite fondue :)!

Offline DaggerDoggie

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Re: John's Cheese #017 - Gruyere #1 & Scott's Gruyere #1
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2008, 04:02:03 PM »
I just took my Gruyere out of the brine.  I used a cold brine that had been refrigerated, but left it on the counter for the last 24 hours.  It came out very dense, which is what I was looking for, but it has fissures on the top and bottom and some cracks on the sides.  I am somewhat disappointed.

Anyone know why this would happen or what I did that may have caused it? ???

Offline John (CH)

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John's Cheese #017 - Gruyere #1 & Scott's Gruyere #1
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2008, 05:46:30 PM »
When you take things under pressure and remove the pressure it expands, like a diver getting the bends. But I don't think that's it as here there should be no gas inside your cheese to expand and fluid has very low compressibility so doesn't expand much at all.

Just in case this is the problem, I posted a picture illustrating this here.

I think it is more that your cheese was so dry that once it saw water again, even salty water, it drank it up unevenly and that cracked from uneven re-hydration. Kind of similar but opposite to when I used to put my cheese in the household forced air very dry fridge and it cracked from rapid uneven dehydration. Just my 2 cents.

Interestingly, I've salt crystal patted the outside of mine 2 days in a row and I get a puddle of water beneath the cheese as I assume th salt is dewatering my much less pressure pressed Gruyere.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 05:49:34 PM by Cheese Head »

Offline reg

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Re: John's Cheese #017 - Gruyere #1 & Scott's Gruyere #1
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2008, 06:38:28 AM »
usually when a cheese cracks like that it is because of moisture being extracted to quickly. the interior still retains a lot of moisture but the exterior dries to quick and shrinks causing voids in the product. that would be my guess and thats all it is a guess

reg
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Offline John (CH)

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Re: John's Cheese #017 - Gruyere #1 & Scott's Gruyere #1
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2008, 03:33:10 PM »
Reg, agree but I think the reverse happened here, when put in the brine it pulled in water too unevenly with outside getting moister but inside still dry resulting in cracks. DD, if you accidentally dropped it ;) :o then you see if dryer of moister inside . . .