Author Topic: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol  (Read 15353 times)

Offline Baby Chee

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Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2009, 08:28:25 PM »
Yep, mine's a white lil' fuzzy thing.  Lightly fuzzy, not too fuzzy.  No other molds are growing, so the p. candidium is in effect and working strong.  They start as little pin dots of white and then spread out to engluf the surface.
“For centuries, people thought the moon was made of green cheese. Then the astronauts found that the moon is really a big hard rock. That's what happens to cheese when you leave it out.”

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2009, 08:31:59 PM »
Very weird stuff. I almost can't see the fuzzy but I can feel it and it's gross! Like tiny little shocks almost. Very weird.

Offline mtncheesemaker(Pam)

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Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2009, 02:41:42 PM »
Debi,
I finally started draining my chevre type cheeses in their molds on a rack set over a deep pan or pot. This eliminated having them sitting in the whey. Also, for this type of cheese, I don't cut the curd, just ladle it into the molds.
How did these guys turn out?
Pam

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2009, 05:55:50 PM »
Ya know ... I just got home from a trip to Wisconsin and I have not checked my little cheeses yet. Gotta do that that!

Okay I checked ... the first batch disinegrated! Melted into a pool of yellowish goop. I expected that would go south any day. The skin way starting to slip when I left two weeks ago. Way to much moisture in the fridge right now. Puddles even!

The second batch grew another layer of white fuzz while I was gone but are still firm and look like short fat marshmellows the size of hockey pucks. Not soft at all though.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2009, 06:32:01 PM by DeejayDebi »

Offline iratherfly

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Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2009, 08:29:06 PM »
Sorry to arrive so late for the party... but how did all of this turned out?

Planning on doing some Crottin myself this coming weekend and looking for a good recipe and method.
Was thinking of heating 2 gallons of goat's milk (Pasteurized) to 75F, add mesophilic (MA001?), 1/8 tsp PC and 1/8 tsp GC, wait 45 minutes at temp, ad CaCl, wait 5 min, add rennet (1/2 tablet diluted in 1/4 cup water) and then leave overnight. Ladle curds without cutting to the molds, drain and turn a few times and by night time take out. Heavy brining for 20 min, drain naturally. When dry enough - transfer to box and age for 5-9 days , upper 40's F or lower 50's F.

I am really wingin' it here with "reverse engineering". Does any of that sound right?  It's kind of a Camembert making with goats milk, added CaCl to make up for the pasteurizing and eventual ladling of uncut curd as with brie. I wish I could get my hands on the traditional recipe.

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2009, 10:10:06 PM »
I think if you re-read the thread Francois told us the right recipe. The second batch came out much better. Of course I was home for them too.

Offline FRANCOIS

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Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2009, 12:24:39 AM »
It should be the right recipe, I got it from a french master cheesemaker.  Even he screws up batches once in a while, mold ripened cheeses are finicky.

Offline iratherfly

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Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2009, 01:05:08 AM »
Thank you guys!

Looking at Francois' formula, please excuse my newbie lack of knowledge, but what are the following?
- 0.9 to 1.0 PF ratio
- PC22 (I assume some type of p penicillium candidum)
- PLA
- DCM (activity)
- 6x floculation to 15mm curds

Also, I assume that the cheese must be somewhat firm before I can brine it to prevent it from falling apart on me, is that correct?
How many Crottin molds do you suggest per gallon?
I do not have a pH meter (just ordered one though) - is that very critical or do you think things will fall into place if I maintain very accurate conditions?

From my little knowledge about Crottin and eating it for years, it seems to age very fast and can usually be eaten as soon as a week, though not reaching peak flavor and texture profile until about two weeks, going downhill after the 21st day... It seems from this board that people discuss much longer aging periods here

Offline FRANCOIS

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Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2009, 03:46:30 AM »
- 0.9 to 1.0 PF ratio   This is the protein to fat ratio of the milk
- PC22 (I assume some type of p penicillium candidum)You are correct 
- PLA Another culture that includes yeasts and other flavor/texture microbes
- DCM (activity) Rennet strength, follow the directions for whatever rennet you are using for soft cheese
- 6x floculation to 15mm curds Measure the time to floculation (gel) and multiply that time by 6, this is your total time form adding rennet to cutting the curd.  Cut the curd to 15mm cubes

Offline John (CH)

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Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2009, 05:53:03 AM »
Francois, many thanks, looked but couldn't find PC22.

iratherfly:
  • Ther's some info here on flocc times.
  • Correct, cheese needs to be somewhat firm before brining, it is normally that way. Brining also hardens the cheese up, at least it dehydrates the outer layer of the cheese making it firmer.
  • There is some standard info here on cheese yields, will help you determine the number of hoops per volume of milk.
  • While you may maintain accurate amounts times and temps during your cheese making and aging, the different ranges of milks, additives strengths etc will always ensure different results, solutions to this are experience and measuring pH.


Not sure if I posted this but pictures of French Market Crottin's:

Offline iratherfly

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Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2009, 01:40:53 PM »
Thanks so much Francois and John!
Where has this cheese forum been all my life? You are so helpful!

OK, I will calculate yield as if it was Camembert/Brie.
I suppose I only need the PLA culture then. Do you know who sells it?

Now that I understand what you meant, I am a bit surprised by the 6x flocculation as this could be as little as one hour; I always thought Crottin curds stay in overnight. I guess the cultures in this formula make up for the acidity that would otherwise happen overnight.

Exciting stuff!

Offline FRANCOIS

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Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2009, 06:09:37 PM »
PC22, PLA and OFR9 are Danisco products. Any culture house should be able to get them for you.  OFR9 is an alternative to PLA, I think there is only one strain different between the two.  Either will work fine.


Offline iratherfly

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Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
« Reply #42 on: December 19, 2009, 09:26:49 AM »
Hey Francois,
I located the PLA culture (actually, reading the spec sheet on it it looks really versatile; B. Linens, Geo Candidum mix with two other aroma cultures Arthrobacter Nicotianae and Debaryomyces Hansenii, I am surprise it's so hard to find and not appear in more common cheese recipes).

However... the PC22 is a discontinued product for a couple of years now. Should I just use any PC? or do you have a better suggestion? I don't know the difference between all of these.

Offline FRANCOIS

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Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
« Reply #43 on: December 20, 2009, 12:05:35 PM »
I'm sure any PC will do.  Funny that you guys have such a hard time finding it, we buy it by the case here.  It is by far the most common PC.

Offline iratherfly

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Re: DeejayDebi's FIRST Goats Cheese and Soft Cheese Crottin de Chavignol
« Reply #44 on: December 21, 2009, 12:02:02 AM »
Well, that was the info I got from the guy that Danisco sent me to. I have plenty of fresh PC at home. I'll just try that. Will probably do it on the 2nd week of Jan. Will keep a photo log and share thee results here.