Author Topic: Submerging Havarti in Water...  (Read 3825 times)

Offline Baby Chee

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Re: Submerging Havarti in Water...
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2009, 03:40:12 AM »
I always wonder how people figured this stuff out.

Most cheeses I suspect were made over wood or coal fires centuries ago, and mistakes or experiments with existing materials surrounding cheese production were incorporated into technique over time.  What would make a person submerge the cheese in warm water is curious.  Maybe someone dropped their curds in the hot water pot used for other cooking.
“For centuries, people thought the moon was made of green cheese. Then the astronauts found that the moon is really a big hard rock. That's what happens to cheese when you leave it out.”


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Offline Tea

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Re: Submerging Havarti in Water...
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2009, 01:23:26 PM »
I wondered the same thing.  Was the cheese put into water, then suddenly a couple of hours down the track, they suddenly saw the salt still in the cup and realized that they had forgotten to add it to the brine, so then placed the cheese into the brine, etc, etc....

You do have to wonder though.

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Submerging Havarti in Water...
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2009, 08:03:08 PM »
It's all a part of the magic left to us by our forefathers and mothers.

Thank God!

Offline Tea

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Re: Submerging Havarti in Water...
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2009, 02:03:54 PM »
Update, I decided to let this get a natural rind, as the outside is fairly pitted, due to the non-press step.  I have brined a couple of times, and a white mould has developed on the surface.  Not worrying be at this stage though. 

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Submerging Havarti in Water...
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2009, 09:12:35 PM »
Well one good thing about Havarti you don't have to wait long.


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Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Submerging Havarti in Water...
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2009, 04:55:16 PM »
I got an email responce back form Jim Wallace today about their Havarti procedure.

I asked:

"What the purpose is of submerging the cheese in plain water before brining?"

His answer:

"The functional purpose of the cold water bath is to quickly drop the temp of the cheese and slow the bacteria down to keep from producing too much acid. This is what makes the Havarti what it is."

So now I have to try this new procedure and see what difference is makes from my old procedure.
 

Offline Tea

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Re: Submerging Havarti in Water...
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2009, 03:58:12 PM »
Well considering my room temp got so high, it will remain to be seen, whether it made any difference to mine.

Aging well at the moment.  Has some white mould forming, but not a concern.  I think I will open this on new year.  It will be one month old, and hopefully will give me some idea whether I should attempt to do this again.

Offline Quesa

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Re: Submerging Havarti in Water...
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2009, 01:37:28 PM »
The explanation of the cool water soak makes sense. Something good to know.

I had thought the purpose would be to fill the cheese pores with water so the cheese doesn't absorb too much salt from the brine.

Which brings me to ask... my recipe, from ehow.com uses a very low salt brine... 1 tablespoon of salt per quart of water. Does that seem like a bit too little salt to anyone, too?

 :)

Offline Tea

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Re: Submerging Havarti in Water...
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2009, 01:57:29 PM »
Yes I does sound a very weak solution.  I wonder if they are combining the water bath and brine one step?

Well Curiosity finally got the cat, and I opened mine on Monday.  The flavour is young, but definately havarti,  but because of the "no pressing" step, the body is pitted with holes as I thought it would be.

So I definately want to do this one again, but I will press lightly with maybe about 4lb to see if that will help the curds meld together better, and I will also wax as the rind was a bit dried and crumbly, which I don't want next time round.

I can't tell you what the water bath step did to the cheese, as I have never made it without, but it certainly doesn't seem to have hurt the flavour of the cheese at all.

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Submerging Havarti in Water...
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2009, 04:54:02 PM »
Tea  ... so your recipe say place the molded cheese in plain water? Is this after pressing for awhile or just put the curds in the mould then in plain water?


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Offline Tea

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Re: Submerging Havarti in Water...
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2009, 02:57:17 PM »
Oops sorry Deb just found this question.   The original recipe doesn't call for pressing at all, just press under it's own weight, and flip regularly for 2 hours.  Then into a cold water bath for another 2 hours, depending on the size of the cheese.  Minimum time 1hr, maximum time 3hr, then into a 20% cold brine solution for 3-4 hours, again depending on the size of the cheese.

So last time I did exactly that, but I also left it to get a natural rind.  It was probably salt washed @ 3-4 times during the month long aging.  The flavour though young, was very promising, but the rind was salty, and a bit dry.  The rind and also the body were very pitted and holey and a bit crumbly.

So I did this again yesterday, only this time I made 2 smaller but thicker squares, using my fetta mould, and stacked them on each other for some weight, and kept flipping and rotating them round.  This time the surface of the cheese is a lot smoother, so hopefully so is the inside.  I am drying in the cave, (too hot at room temp) then this time I will wax, and see what the difference is going to be.  Will keep you updated on their progress.

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Submerging Havarti in Water...
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2009, 07:48:05 PM »
Thanks for the update!

I have been pressing my Havarti with the weight of a second cheese and a large can of tomatoes about 8 pounds (about 3.5 kilos). It seem to meld better.

I haven't had the chance to make any cheese lately except the Leipäjuusto I posted a few days ago but I need to try this to see what it does to myeese. Maybe next Thursday or Friday when I smoke my pastrami. I think that is the only project left hanging right now.

Offline Alex

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Re: Submerging Havarti in Water...
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2009, 12:38:18 PM »
According to pressing and salting, this is the paragraph from my recipe:

Drain off the water/whey and continue stirring and breaking up curds while putting directly into cheese hoops.
Place on followers and begin pressing with 680 gr. weight per 454 gr. cheese.
Remove cheeses from press, turn over, and put back in hoops.
Return to press. Repeat 2 more times every 15 min.
Repeat 3 more times every hour.
Remove from press and place in saturated brine for 2 1/2 hours per 454 gr. of cheese depending on desired salt content.
Alternatively, rub cheese wheels with coarse flake dry salt once per day for each 1.8 kg. of cheese.

I made two Havarties 3-1/2 months ago, a plain one and a caraway seeds one. I cut into the plain a week ago, it was awsome, soft, creamy with a very litle sharp after taste. I can hardly wait to make the next batch, we like this cheese more than Edam and Gouda that are very simmilar in the make.
Alex-The Cheesepenter

Offline Tea

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Re: Submerging Havarti in Water...
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2009, 02:58:00 PM »
Alex they look wonderful.  I note that after 3 months that your rind is still looking fairly pale.  Mine went very yellow at around the 3 week mark, and was very dry.  Did you age these in a humid environment?  Just wondering how you kept the rinds looking so soft.

I waxed my two yesterday, so I am hoping that they will remain nice and soft.  Fingers crossed.

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Submerging Havarti in Water...
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2009, 10:02:35 PM »
They looks great ALex. That's pretty much the way I make mine. I am just curious about this pure water bath that Babychee mentioned from Ricci's site. Just seems odd but who knows?