Author Topic: John's Cheese #048 - Semi-Lactic #1  (Read 5368 times)

Offline John (CH)

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John's Cheese #048 - Semi-Lactic #1
« on: September 11, 2009, 05:56:18 PM »
This is my first Lactic type cheese making, using member Alex's procedure/recipe.

RECORDS
  • Sep 11, 2009, 5:30PM: Poured 1 US gallon jug of store bought pasteurized homogenized whole cow's milk from store that had been sitting in sink, into stockpot on small gas burner on stove. Measurements 19C/66F, 5.70 pH, turned on heat to warm, forgot, overshot Alex's target 20-22C, stirred, 29C/85F, 5.72 pH. Measured 0.26 gram Danisco's Choozit Brand DVI Mesophilic Starter Culture MM100 onto mini digital scale, (roughly 3.5 times manufacturers up to recommendation as mine is now 1 year old). Tapped off onto milk, let rehydrate a few minutes, stirred in with slotted ladle. Set aside for culture to pre-ripen.
  • Sep 11, 2009, 6:15PM: As milk pasteurized, to standardize - help coagulation, trickled and stirred in 0.25 teaspoon/1.25 ml diluted CaCl2. Measured ~0.08 gram (75% normal amount) CHR Hansen Brand powdered rennet onto mini digital scale (hard to measure as very small amount), diluted in 1 cup cool water, trickled into milk and stirred in thoroughly for 1 minute and then stopping swirl with ladle. Covered, set aside for curd to set overnight.
  • Sep 11, 2009, 10:00PM: Checked, solid curd formed, replaced cover and left at 77F/25C room temperature over night.
  • Sep 12, 2009, 9:15AM: After 15 hours pre-ripening, found curd still formed but had not separated from the sides of the vat (stockpot) but rather stuck to sides and shrunk and split in middle. Minimal layer of whey on top, presumably as curd hadn't separated from sides and shrunk in all 3 dimensions. But, there were cracks in the curd! Ladled the curds and whey (no easy way to separate whey) into a draining cheeecloth bag, curds very fragile and broke up when ladling. Hung bag to drain whey and further ripen the cheese.
  • Sep 12, 2009, 5:15PM: After 8 hours hanging, turned draining bag inside out to dump curds into mixing bowl. Stirred in 3/4 cup of chopped hazelnuts, tasted, similar to cream cheese, placed in pyramid shaped molds. Patted cheese down into corners and flattened top (bottom) which pushed a bit of cheese out of drain holes. Set pyramid cups on draining board to further drain.
  • Sep 12, 2009, 10:15PM: After 5 hours draining, some whey drained onto draining board, but none dripped off end into sink (unfocused picture below). Cheese is too sticky to turn in molds, will not fall out, worried that already overmade cheese as warmer household temp than in Alex's Procedure, so placed on plate in household fridge to set overnight.
  • Sep 13, 2009, 5:45AM: After 7.5 hours in fridge, checked, small puddle of whey beneath molds, does not extend past edge of mold (picture below). Placed one inverted outside fridge to see if will drop out of mold.
  • Sep 13, 2009, 8:30AM: Gravity wins, cheese dropped, removed plastic mold and placed other two oustide fridge inverted to also drop (picture below).
  • Sep 13, 2009, 9:00AM: All cheeses out of molds, tried rolling one in salt, too soft and sticky, mess, (picture below). Trickled salt from container on top of other two and down sides in hope of getting some to stick (picture below).
  • Sep 13, 2009, 11:00AM: Puffed few spores of Geotrichum candidum and Penicillium candidum. onto each of cheeses, placed in plastic ripening box with lid ajar and placed box in cheese cave.
  • Sep 15, 2009, 7:00PM: Drained whey off and cleaned aging container, keft lid ajar.
  • Sep 17, 2009, 6:00PM: No whey, cheeses a little dry and aging container had crushed this lid and squished 2 cheeses (picture below). Placed one in household fridge to eat, continue with other two.
  • Sep 20, 2009, 2:00PM: Partial mold bloom (picture below), transferred to smaller ripening plastic box, placed back in cheese cave.
  • Sep 29, 2009, 2:00PM: Very strong mold bloom (picture below) including unwanted wild blue P roqueforti mold, washed two remaining cheeses with beer, placed on clen mat in in clean ripening plastic box, and placed back in cheese cave.
  • Sep 30, 2009, 2:00PM: Cut and sampled one of cheeses, surprise, beautiful soft creamy with Gorgonzola taste.
  • Oct 08, 2009, 8:00PM: Cut and started eating the last of these three at age 28 days. This one is firmer slightly drier than second, plus crushed hazlenuts were starting to get a little soft, taste is good but less bluing than number 2 which was consumed at 20 days and was better.

NOTES
  • Drained whey from hanging the cheese was much more transparent than when making cut curds.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2009, 05:50:16 AM by John (CH) »


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Offline John (CH)

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« Last Edit: September 30, 2009, 06:18:08 PM by John (CH) »

Offline John (CH)

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« Last Edit: September 30, 2009, 06:20:13 PM by John (CH) »

Offline John (CH)

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« Last Edit: September 30, 2009, 06:23:09 PM by John (CH) »

Offline John (CH)

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« Last Edit: September 30, 2009, 06:37:21 PM by John (CH) »


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Offline John (CH)

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« Last Edit: September 30, 2009, 06:42:26 PM by John (CH) »

Offline John (CH)

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Re: John's Cheese #048 - Semi-Lactic #1
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2009, 05:56:14 AM »
As I was getting a very different result from Alex's recipe I PM (Personal Messaged) him and he kindly replied, those PM's copied here as useful for others:

Alex, I'm making your recipe here: http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2071.0.html

Appreciate if you have any advice so far?

I plan to stir in some crushed nuts after hanging, and then apply P candidum like you did. I was thinking mold on only half but I think no way to keep separate.

Thx, John.

Hi john,

Nothing to comment so far. Usually I act like you, make half and half. About the mold, I add it at the beginning of the process as I do with my Camemberts.

Offline John (CH)

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Re: John's Cheese #048 - Semi-Lactic #1
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2009, 06:00:40 AM »
Second PM exchanged with Alex, again useful for others:

Hi Alex, OK I put in molds, frankly it doesn't look like your consistency at all, mine is like cream cheese, and tastes like it to.

Any ideas? I don't even know how I'm going to get it out of the molds as it's so sticky. Zero chance of turning it.

Hi John,

It is not compulsory (that's the word?) to turn the cheeses in their moulds. Usually I keep the curds in the cheeses cloth with some stirring and mixing during dripping, untill dripping stops. 6-12 hours dipending on the innitial curds consistency (I have no idea about the behaviour of store bought milk) and the total amount of curds. I am always on the shorter time.

Keep the cheeses in moulds for up to 48 hours for further drying. It is like a cream cheese and tastes like one, that's OK. During ageing the taste improves and changes totally.

In general it is a messy and delicate stuff to handle and the final result worths it.

Offline John (CH)

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Re: John's Cheese #048 - Semi-Lactic #1
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2009, 06:30:02 AM »
Alex (& others):

Last night (my time) I got scared that:
  • Milk > cheese had been outside fridge for 29 hours in my warm than most 77F/25C room temperature.
  • I had started with too more than most amount of meso starter culture and with milk too warm so I probably had much faster acidity development than recipe.
  • Very little whey still being drained.
So I chickened out and put them in the house cold fridge to set overnight.

For making hanging bag type Cream Cheese or Neufchatel I also stir/move the caked curds away from the bag wall to allow interior moister curds to drain better, but didn't here as it was draining so well anyway. Also, how do you get P candidum on half these cheeses if you put that mold into the milk up front?

I've still gotten a very different looking result than your or clherestian's in this thread. I see four things different:
  • Both of you use raw cow's milk, I used store bought past & homogenized whole cow's milk.
  • My amount of starter culture could have been higher than yours plus I started with a higher initial temp so faster acidification.
  • Too much rennet? I had a good set when I checked after 4 hours.
  • Higher room temperature thus again faster acidification.
Any ideas why so different?

Thanks!
« Last Edit: September 13, 2009, 08:37:30 AM by John (CH) »

Offline Alex

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Re: John's Cheese #048 - Semi-Lactic #1
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2009, 09:19:22 AM »
Milk > cheese had been outside fridge for 29 hours in my warm than most 77F/25C room temperature.
I had started with too more than most amount of meso starter culture and with milk too warm so I probably had much faster acidity development than recipe.
Very little whey still being drained.
So I chickened out and put them in the house cold fridge to set overnight.

You are right, 25 is a bit too high, you did well putting them in the fridge.

For making hanging bag type Cream Cheese or Neufchatel I also stir/move the caked curds away from the bag wall to allow interior moister curds to drain better, but didn't here as it was draining so well anyway. Also, how do you get P candidum on half these cheeses if you put that mold into the milk up front?
As I can see in the pic with the nuts mixed, the curds are quite moist, you always have to stir/move the caked curds away from the bag wall to allow interior moister curds to drain better.
P candidum: I make two batches in to vats.

I do not understand what exacdtly you see different? The "after over night" pic shows a wonderfull curds, exactly how it should look like, with cracks and some whey.
I do not use spicy and roasted nuts, just naturals.
The unmoulded cheese looks very good. Put it in the cave.
From here everything looks like "by the book" and great success.
Age them for 3 to 6 and even 8 weeks (if you have enough pieces).
Next time you move on to coat with salted ash/charcoal and wash with brine or beer twice a week after blooming.
Alex-The Cheesepenter


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Offline John (CH)

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Re: John's Cheese #048 - Semi-Lactic #1
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2009, 10:25:46 AM »
Alex, thanks for support/advice.

Both yours adn clherestian's look more curdy lump than mine which looks more cream cheese style.

OK they are back in the fridge. Will add a dab of P candidum, hope it will take.

Thanks for ideas on next batch(s).

Offline Tea

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Re: John's Cheese #048 - Semi-Lactic #1
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2009, 04:30:29 PM »
THis looks interesting CH.  Hope that is starts to firm up a bit for you.
Keep us posted.

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Re: John's Cheese #048 - Semi-Lactic #1
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2009, 06:48:56 AM »
John,

Can you let us know how they are aging? Any pics maybe?

 As you may have seen from my previous other post I am having continual problems with slip skin/bad rinds on this type of cheese. I dont seem to have any problems with Camembert but these uncooked bloomy rind type cheeses are frustrating me.
www.sunrisefarmnc.com - "Quality Dairy Goats at reasonable prices "

Offline John (CH)

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Re: John's Cheese #048 - Semi-Lactic #1
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2009, 08:26:12 AM »
seigfriedw, yep saw your thread :(.

I just updated with one picture above and text in OP. I only added some G candidum & P candidum directly onto cheese after formed rather than in milk and sadly when I checked last night my RH has been too low as the lid fell in and heavier cheese squished two and thus neither have bloomed.

So sorry I can't be of much help, tasted squished one, very similar to cream cheese.

Offline John (CH)

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Re: John's Cheese #048 - Semi-Lactic #1
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2009, 06:02:31 PM »
OK, my P & G candidum have bloomed ;D. Alex any recommendations on where I should go with it from here? Thx!