Author Topic: Argon  (Read 3294 times)

wharris

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Argon
« on: September 30, 2009, 02:15:56 PM »
As a winemaker, I use a lot of argon gas to blanket the top of my wine in my carboys.
why? 
I use argon because it is inert (far right side of periodic table)
Its heavier than air.
Its readily available.
It displaces oxygen and prevent my wine from oxidizing.


So here is my Cheese related question:

What if I were to use argon as a rind?
I mean, if the purpose of vacuum sealing, waxing, or other rinds is (in part) to keep nasty things from growing on the outside, what if I were to fill a tupperware container with argon and lower a wheel into it, the seal the top. 

Would that keep the unwanted molds from growing on the surface? (Assuming I did not want mold there.)

Would this suffocate the lactococcus lactis cultures that are still at work inside the cheese?

Anyone else have thoughts on this?




linuxboy

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Re: Argon
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2009, 06:36:54 PM »
Hey Wayne,

It's completely doable in theory, but I've never tried it or seen it done with cheese. Like you said, for wine, argon is used to prevent oxidation. Cheese doesn't oxidize the same way.

If you submerged cheese in argon, it would stop aerobic respiration of any existing bacteria. Most molds need oxygen, so it should prevent mold growth, too.

It wouldn't suffocate any living L. lactis, but they would switch over to anaerobic respiration. From what I recall, lactic bacteria tend to produce more acetic acid in anaerobic mode. But, by the time you're ready for affinage, most of the lactose has been consumed, so it shouldn't make a huge difference. It might actually accelerate cell death and enzyme release for faster proteolysis.

If you seal the tupperware, you'll also have 100% RH, which doesn't work for too many cheeses. You may need to take the wheel out every so often so it can breathe.

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Argon
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2009, 03:07:27 AM »
I have no experiance with argon - I use CO2 for beer so I don't know how this would work other than the though that early on hard cheeses need a lot of fresh air.

Tropit

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Re: Argon
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2009, 02:21:35 PM »
Argon is readily available???  Hummm...who knew? 

I suppose it would work, but personally, (IMHO) I want the environment to have a play in the final taste and character of my cheese.  If the cheese has good innoculation of the favorable bacterias, then it won't be a problem to let it air out in the open.  Just my opinion, (and that's why there are so many cheeses and cheesemakers...there's always a variable.)

wharris

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Re: Argon
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2009, 03:17:30 PM »
Pure Argon can be purchased at any welding supply store for about 11USD a 5lb bottle.

About as expensive as buying propane.

The only point to the thread was to suggest that if I was trying to form a barrier around  surface of the cheese anway, would argon work?

Other folks use wax, vacuum bags, natural rinds, and other methods to do much the same thing.

Argon is a natural, inert gas, that does not pollute, nor does it react with anything.
It is heavier than air and would merely suffocate any wild molds or bugs trying to get at the cheese.  It would, however, not keep cheese from drying out.

I have not tried this yet, but I plan to.






Tropit

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Re: Argon
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2009, 01:04:24 PM »
Oh...don't mind me.  I love to try new things too and I'm just reacting initially out loud.  Actually, I think that it would make for an interesting experiment...and I LOVE experiments.  What kind of container are you thinking of using?  At what stage would you put it all in the argon?  Would it affect the aging process?  Taste?  Hummm....

wharris

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Re: Argon
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2009, 01:13:55 PM »
All good questions.   Fact is, I don't know to most of your questions.. 

I'm still just thinking about it. it.

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Argon
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2009, 05:33:21 PM »
Maybe you could save a handfull of curds from your next batch and fill one of the small kadova molds and try it. If it works great if not you don't loose much.

GBoyd

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Re: Argon
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2009, 07:03:19 PM »
It's definitely an interesting idea and worth a try.

So your goal is to create a stable, anaerobic environment around the cheese to prevent mold infestation and slow bacterial action?
It seems that the effects on aging should be similar to waxing and vacuum packing, with the difference that argon would allow the cheese to dry.

Would aging in argon be easier or cheaper than wax, especially for large cheeses?


wharris

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Re: Argon
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2009, 07:16:36 PM »
The reason I am thinking of using argon, is that I am trying to figure a way to seal my larger wheels.
>Waxing is not practical,
>Too big for vacuum sealing

























vogironface

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Re: Argon
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2009, 04:41:35 AM »
Wayne,

If you can fit the wheel in a vacuum bag then you could fill the bag with gas.  Then, using only the sealer and not the vacuum, work your way around the bag until it is sealed. 

wharris

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Re: Argon
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2009, 03:53:19 PM »
Humidity?

driekus

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Re: Argon
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2010, 03:19:05 AM »
Ok my knowledge is more from a chemists perspective here as my cheese making is limited. Assuming that you are comparing it to the other options, vacuum sealing and waxing they both provide an anaerobic environment. The only thing that would concern me is the gas itself and the fact that it is not a food grade gas and that there could be contaminants that would be detrimental to consume. I would suggest considering food grade nitrogen, the effect would be the same and the cost is similar.
What type of container were you planning to use?

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Argon
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2010, 03:25:23 AM »
Wayne,

If you can fit the wheel in a vacuum bag then you could fill the bag with gas.  Then, using only the sealer and not the vacuum, work your way around the bag until it is sealed.

That's how I do it. I posted a tutorial some place.