Author Topic: Eric's over-the-top home made cheese press  (Read 33874 times)

Cheese Head

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Re: Eric's over-the-top home made cheese press
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2009, 12:30:37 PM »
Eric

So you are making Gouda based on the webpage recipe here that I posted based on the comparison of four Gouda recipes here.

As Farmer says, any recipe that gives pressure needs to also give the hoop size, otherwise it can be very inaccurate as one cheese maker can be using a 12" diameter hoop and another 6". The recipe above uses weight per amount of milk which is better than nothing. Even that is a rough guide different sized hoops, 2% vs full fat milk, raw vs past & homogenized etc. Gouda is a washed curd type cheese and is only lightly pressed, vs Cheddar's which are milled and highly presses, so do not got to max. In the end I think it all comes down to experience.

Farmer, I hadn't heard of that sort of gauge, would be good idea. Also, if you are building a new monster press, have a look at the antique cast iron double compounding vertical presses in this thread. The way I see it, 50 pound weight on ~10:1 first lever gives 500 pounds which then compounds on second ~5:1 lever = 2500 pounds weight on cheese.

FarmerJd

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Re: Eric's over-the-top home made cheese press
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2009, 01:50:01 PM »
Eric,

i keep forgetting that you are making gouda. I am sure John is absolutely right about not maxing out the pressure. I am only a cheddar man and really not very good at that. I'll just stick to the math! :)

john, first thanks for the correction. Second, wow what a link! I am a kid in a candy store! Forget the cylinder! I have laid in my bed at night trying to think of a way to compact the lever so my pressing unit is a little more contained. Long pressing arm = large piece of furniture= unhappy wife! I feel pretty  dumb now. I am definitely going to build one of these. There is actually one more multiplier in some of these that you didn't mention. I attached a pic of one. Notice the weight is attached to a chain that goes through a pulley with a fixed end. That doubles the end result. I can just see that guy  jump out of bed when he thought of that one! ;D

Cheese Head

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Re: Eric's over-the-top home made cheese press
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2009, 03:26:37 PM »
Farmer, right, I didn't think of that single pulley, yep again doubles it!

Those two metal rods, one on each side must take quite a tensile load! The picture like the one your posted is I think more British style with very high triple (not double, thx for correction) compounding for more cheddar type cheeses, it looks like it's out of Industrial revolution era but still works fine ;D.

The pictures of antique Dutch style presses are smaller and single, sometimes double compounding for more lightly pressed Continental Washed Curd type cheeses.

wharris

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Re: Eric's over-the-top home made cheese press
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2009, 03:27:45 PM »
I would love to find one of those.

Cheese Head

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Re: Eric's over-the-top home made cheese press
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2009, 03:29:26 PM »
Me also, I check eBay once a month hoping one will show up, bit of sandblasting and paint . . .

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Eric's over-the-top home made cheese press
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2009, 05:28:38 PM »
How about a cheap bearing press? I've played with this idea for awhile.

http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=bearing+press

wharris

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Re: Eric's over-the-top home made cheese press
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2009, 10:09:03 PM »
I have one of these, and I've thought of this as well, i just don't think this will work.

I mean, you could absolutely smash the largest wheels with these.

But placing a constant, known, measured pressure on a wheel would be tough to do with a hydraulic jack.
I could put a load on a wheel, but I would have difficulty knowing exactly how much pressure is being applied unless i put some kind of gauge between the wheel of cheese and the press.

Then, as whey escapes from the wheel, and the cheese wheel shrinks, the pressure on the wheel  would lessen and the jack would have to be slowly increased to match the size shrinkage of the wheel.

I have opted not to use mine because of these complexities.




wharris

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Re: Eric's over-the-top home made cheese press
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2009, 12:59:56 AM »
Erics press kinda looks like a cooler version of my new basket grape press.

FarmerJd

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Re: Eric's over-the-top home made cheese press
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2009, 01:20:22 AM »
Quote
Then, as whey escapes from the wheel, and the cheese wheel shrinks, the pressure on the wheel  would lessen and the jack would have to be slowly increased to match the size shrinkage of the wheel.


This is why I like the suspension air bags. see link
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260484566273&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT

With this you could put a simple regulator on the bag adjusted to the desired air pressure and it would automatically kick on to keep the pressure where you want it. These things also produce massive amounts of pressure. With a 8 inch diameter, and 40 psi you would generate 2000 lbs. I was going to do this until I saw those antique press pics. I talked to a welder today. I have got to have one of those.

Wayne, I love the grape press!

memkuk

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Re: Eric's over-the-top home made cheese press
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2009, 04:25:34 AM »
Wayne Harris - The pneumatic cylinder is a CM2B20-150 from SMC (smcusa.com), which I ordered from their Thailand branch.
It's a double acting, single rod cylinder with a 20 mm bore and 150 mm stroke (I incorrectly mentioned in an earlier post that its stroke was 250 mm). ::)
Its maximum pressure is 1 MPa, which equals 145 PSI. All specs can be found following this link: http://content.smcetech.com/pdf/cm2.pdf

memkuk

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Re: Eric's over-the-top home made cheese press
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2009, 04:58:39 AM »
In the end I think it all comes down to experience.

John, roger that. It's what we call in Flemish: "Fingerspitzengefühl". (I know, it's a German word, but we never managed to properly translate it). :)

kenjin

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Re: Eric's over-the-top home made cheese press
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2009, 12:21:01 PM »
Great press Eric:) and would you believe it we are practically Neighbours!  Maybe I can commission you to make me one?

wharris

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Re: Eric's over-the-top home made cheese press
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2009, 02:01:37 PM »
So,
If that cylinder has a 20mm bore, and a 150PSI max internal pressure, I think that means that it presses down with about 73lbs of force.
(20mm is 0.79 inches) or (.48square inches.)
150PSI/.48SI=~73lbs

Now spread that down force over a standard 8in Wheel (~50square inches), that is max PSI of 1.4lbs on the cheese itself.

Sounds a bit light for hard cheeses.. 
Not trying to be critical, just thinking about one for myself.


memkuk

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Re: Eric's over-the-top home made cheese press
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2009, 04:31:35 PM »
Nick - Hi neighbor, I'm sure we will get in touch soon. Great to have someone else nearby who is interested in cheese making.

Wayne - I'm a bit ignorant in this field. Only after John and Farmer came up with formulas to calculate required PSI of the pneumatic cylinder in relation to surface area, I realized things were more complicated than what I assumed. To me it was just a matter of equaling the pressure of the cylinder to putting weights on the wheel. After following the discussion I realize that things are more complicated. Maybe I should get a cylinder with a larger bore. Any suggestions from your side, taking into consideration that I'm trying to make Gouda with a hoop of 18 cm inside diameter?

wharris

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Re: Eric's over-the-top home made cheese press
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2009, 05:54:55 PM »
I did some playing with the numbers and just decided to write a small spreadsheet to calculate the max pressure of a given bore size of a piston against different mould sizes, given a constant max cylinder pressure.

I am not a Gouda expert, but It looks like John has used about 2.7PSI on his Gouda. (80lbs on 6” wheel) in the past.

So, given his PSI, and your desire for a slightly bigger wheel (18cm~7inches.), you will need a bit more downforce than his 80lbs.

If you look at the chart, at 150PSI, you can get those kinds of pressures with the 25mm bore.

Looks like the most PSI your rig can deliver to a 7in wheel given 150PSI and a 20mm bore is 1.9PSI

As you can see by the chart, a 25MM bore will be able to deliver 2.97PSI, more than enough for your sized wheel.

I have included the actual spreadsheed if anyone wants to tweak it, or check my math for errors.  Trust me, I make em.

<Clarification>, the pinkish area in my graph is the PSI being applied to the cheese.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2009, 08:56:17 PM by Wayne Harris »