Author Topic: Mixing Pasteurized Cow's Milk & UP Cow's Cream  (Read 9970 times)

Baby Chee

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Mixing Pasteurized Cow's Milk & UP Cow's Cream
« on: October 11, 2009, 11:34:08 AM »
Yesterday I made a cheddar (traditional English via Ricki Carroll's recipe) with 3 gallons pasteurized store milk and 2 quarts ULTRA-pasteurized whipping cream.  CaCl added to milk before starter.

I should have looked closely at the cream in the store, so ended up with a highly processed cream.

Curd formed nicely, but after the stirring and cooking the whey was having troubles getting out of the curd.  I let it set for 45 minutes, hoping it would release whey, but it didn't.  A yellowish oil appeared on top of the curds.  There was a lot of curd in the cheesecloth which made it a draining nightmare while flipping at 95ºF for a few hours.  The draining was quite oily and fatty.

Ultimately, the draining problem drew me off schedule during the cheddaring period.  It all went to press, filling the large 8" mold, and has been pressing for over 16 hours so far.  Haven't weighed the cheese, but it is large enough, so the curd harvest was good.

Whey left behind was very rich and white/mild green.

I'll see how this cheddar turns out in 3 or more months.  So far it just seems far softer and oilier than normal store milk cheeses I have made.   I might have to press it longer to harden it up more.  Figured I would post my results and open a topic for people who wind up with some ultra-pasteurized milk in their cheese.

Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Mixing Pasteurized Cow's Milk & UP Cow's Cream
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2009, 03:32:56 PM »
Why did you feel the need to add cream? 2 QUARTS is a crap load of extra cream. MAYBE 2 cups, but not 2 quarts.

"Flipping at 95F for a few hours" sounds like WAY too much time cheddaring. I usually do an hour. Did you stack your slabs?

pH targets are really important with Cheddar, Are you testing?

Cheddar needs to be pressed much harder than many cheeses to get the cheddared curds to meld together. Especially with an 8 inch mold.

Baby Chee

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Re: Mixing Pasteurized Cow's Milk & UP Cow's Cream
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2009, 07:23:34 PM »
I currently have no solid method of testing pH.  Strips aren't very accurate.

The curd was so moist it didn't stack for a good while, and when it did I could taste the drain off becoming more acidic.

Cream--I felt the need to experiment and see how the cheese works in the end.  The curd is very rich and creamy, and not nearly as acidic as the run off was.  Pressing is still going on at 50 lbs. for the gouda mold it sits in.  There hasn;t been any deflation in the past 8 hours that I can perceptibly register.

Is there a reason to NOT put cream into the cheese?

Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Mixing Pasteurized Cow's Milk & UP Cow's Cream
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2009, 09:47:48 PM »
Adding cream obviously changes the fat and calcium balances. 2 quarts is a LOT of cream. Recipes are very specific for a given cheese type. For example - Emmental & Jarlsburg (Swiss Types) both call for lower fat milk. If you use higher fat milk, they will not produce "eyes" as well.

For cheddar, you should be pressing at least 3 psi or greater (some here are pressing 10psi or more). For an 8" mold, that's 150 pounds. Yes, 150. At 50 pounds, you are only pressing at 1 psi on an 8" mold. If you leave too much whey in the cheese, it will turn out acidic and sour.

My weight to pressure ratio spreadsheet is attached.

Baby Chee

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Re: Mixing Pasteurized Cow's Milk & UP Cow's Cream
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2009, 10:47:04 PM »
I see, thank you for the chart.

But what about the missing element on the chart: time?  Can time compensate for lack of weight in this process? 

Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Mixing Pasteurized Cow's Milk & UP Cow's Cream
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2009, 01:22:57 AM »
A little extra time can compoensate for a little less weight. But extra time isn't going to help if you are pressing at less than 1/3 of what you need. You are just going to end up trapping whey in the curd matrix.

Many hobbyist recipes will say "Press at 50 pounds overnight". Their point of reference is for a 4 inch mold. If you follow the spreadsheet, 50 pounds on a 4 inch mold is 3.98 psi. Now go down the column for an 8 inch mold. You need 200 pounds to acheive the same 3.98 psi.

Here is the description of pressing pressures in "200 Easy Homemade Cheese Recipes"

Light - 5 to 10 psi
Medium - 10 to 20 psi
Firm - 20 to 45 psi

The LOW end of, 10 psi, would be around 500 pounds on an 8 inch mold.

I feel that these are a little high, but most of us are probably pressing hard cheeses way to light on larger molds.

Offline Boofer

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Re: Mixing Pasteurized Cow's Milk & UP Cow's Cream
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2009, 04:24:19 AM »
Sailor - Thanks for the chart. What is the origin? Why DO all the cheesemaking books prescribe a lower press weight, e.g. 50 pound overnight?

Not saying that Colby and Cheddar are identical, but I just did a Colby using 3 gallons of whole milk and 1 quart of pasteurized (but not ultra-pasteurized or UHT) whipping cream. It turned out very nicely.

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Sailor Con Queso

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Re: Mixing Pasteurized Cow's Milk & UP Cow's Cream
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2009, 06:00:16 PM »
The typical tabletop press uses a "calibrated" spring that bottoms out at just 50 pounds. So, the majority of cheesemaking books and recipes take a very simplistic approach and assume that you are using a small tabletop press with the 50# spring and a 4" mold. Their use of weights instead of pressure (psi) is wrong and really a disservice to amateur cheesemakers.

The surface area of a 4" follower is 12.6 square inches. So, if you are using 50 pounds, that translates to 50 pounds/12.6 square inches = 3.98 psi. The problem is that as you increase the size of the mold, the weight stays the same, but the psi drops dramatically. An 8" follower has a surface area of 50.3 square inches, so that same 50 pound weight is really spreadout and doesn't apply as much pressure to the larger cheese. In fact, 50 pounds/50.3 square inches = less than 1 psi.

Commercial sites and the best recipes talk about psi (pounds per square inch) and NOT just weights.

I created the chart using basic math to calculate PSI.

Baby Chee

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Re: Mixing Pasteurized Cow's Milk & UP Cow's Cream
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2009, 08:36:26 PM »
I've upped the weight to about 70 lbs. and am pressing for 48 hours.  Tonight at 10pm, before bed, I take it out.  Hopefully it is fairly dry by that time.

I should buy more weights.  In time I would love to do far larger and deeper cheeses.  8" is perfect, but 8+ inches deep would be good for harder cheeses.

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Re: Mixing Pasteurized Cow's Milk & UP Cow's Cream
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2009, 06:48:27 AM »
Sailor - Thanks for the detail. Have a cheese on me.  ;) That helps me a lot.

I wonder how many cheese artisans here are conforming to the minimal weight and how many are actually pressing according to psi? I would have to believe the former would be the case.

I thought I was doing well with my barbell weights. You raise doubts. Perhaps I could be doing better with the application of more pressing pressure.

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Cheese Head

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Re: Mixing Pasteurized Cow's Milk & UP Cow's Cream
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2009, 11:03:34 AM »
Team, great table. If you search there has been several heated discussions on weight vs area. In my humble opinion there are many other variables to think of for that molecule of water/whey to travel from the center of cheese to rind, such as height of cheese, number of drainage holes, route via cheesecloth of using a liner, time etc. Plus pressing is about whey removal and knitting of curds.

MrsKK

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Re: Mixing Pasteurized Cow's Milk & UP Cow's Cream
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2009, 12:05:38 PM »
"Their use of weights instead of pressure (psi) is wrong and really a disservice to amateur cheesemakers."

I think the point of these books is that they ARE for amateur cheesemakers.  It took me a year of cheesemaking to get to the point of making a 6" mold from PVC - mostly because the PVC had to be bought in a ten foot section and cost over $30.  It may not sound like much to some people, but that's not "extra" money that just happens to be laying around my house...

I also use barbell weights (purchased used for $10) and made my press stand from hardwood slabs that we got from a furniture factory (they give away truckloads of odd pieces and occasionally there are some large enough for rustic use), plus dowels I purchased at the local hardware store.

Strictly economy here and strictly amateur.  It's still cheese.

I press at 50 lbs for a 6 inch diameter cheddar - the mold is 8 inches deep, but the curds usually fill it to about 6 inches.  They compress to about 4 to 4 1/2 inches thick.  The cheddar comes out just fine, even though I am at about half of what the psi "should" be according to your table.

Baby Chee

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Re: Mixing Pasteurized Cow's Milk & UP Cow's Cream
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2009, 12:22:50 PM »
Just took the cheddar out of the mold: gave it the night extra to compensate for weight.

Seems drier than any other cheese I made.  Quite a chunky cheese too-higher than any other other cheese made in the same mold.
Guess it's now a 3 month pause (or more) before we find out how well this cheese worked.

MrsKK

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Re: Mixing Pasteurized Cow's Milk & UP Cow's Cream
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2009, 12:28:09 PM »
Yep, cheddar is definitely a hurry-up-and-wait cheese.

That extra cream is what gave you the extra volume of cheese, although I think the problems you had with draining were from the higher fat content.  But, hey, if nobody experimented, no new cheeses would be discovered, would they?

What's your next cheese to attack?

Baby Chee

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Re: Mixing Pasteurized Cow's Milk & UP Cow's Cream
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2009, 12:31:01 PM »
ha, I guess whatever cheese I blunder into I will probably shift a bit.  It's going to be a month pause before I get back to the cheesemaking.  I'm still trying to get Stilton working, and Camembert that it in excellent shape.

That cream gives quite a bit extra value!  I'm glad I tried it out.