Distilling

[FRANCOIS]

let me preface this by syaing I know virtually nothing about making alcohol aside form using kits before.  In NZ it is apparentlu not possible for mere mortals to purchase grain alcohol. In fact the most potent I can find at the liquor store is 80 proof. I would like to have 90% or higher for making tinctures, extracts and a hos tof other useful things.

I have a distiller that I brought with me from the US, I built it for making essential oils.  It is, as near as I can tell, very similar to an acohol still.  It has  a flask for holding/heating water, then another one to hold plant matter and a final step with a condensor. 

Here's my quesiton, if I put 80 proof Vodka in the distiller, will I get it more concentrated out of the other end?  I'm guessing no, but I would like to hear opinions.

[linuxboy]

How long is your column between the flask and condenser? Do you have a way to achieve reflux? Might be possible to mod your existing still if you post a diagram or some pics.

Even going straight through, if you use low heat, you should be able to get 60-80% to start, and it will decrease as you keep collecting.

[whichwhey?]

Me, no. I have been reading everything under the sun about alcohol and would not trust anything that has been home distilled.

[linuxboy]

Me, no. I have been reading everything under the sun about alcohol and would not trust anything that has been home distilled.

Interesting, what makes you say that? Most commercial producers operate a continuous still process and do not make cuts of higher volatiles like ethyl acetate and acetone that are present in the first fractions of distillate, nor do they cut the tails that have heavier oils. Those things are what cause hangovers. Aging and using charred barrels helps with getting rid of some nasties but not all. A pure hearts fraction from the middle, on the other hand, is much purer, but more expensive to produce.

Some smaller-scale distillers produce quality products, but the major commercial stuff out there is made without cuts.

[FRANCOIS]

While this is not my setup (found it online) mine is quite similar in size and dimension.  As far as reflux goes, I have no idea what that is.  th eone important difference between this still and mine is that between the top of the first flask and the start of the cond. I dip down into another flask that is filled with more plant material.  I forget what my reasoning was for this, but it worked pretty well in the past.  I will dig it out tonight and take some photos.

[linuxboy]

Ah, gotcha, a classic lab-style oils extractor. Reflux is when some of the vapor is knocked back down the column as liquid, and then the heat from below turns it back to vapor. What happens inside the column is that higher up, the temp is higher, and lower in the column, the temp is lower. And the longer the column, the greater control you can have. If you have a reflux system, it basically distills multiple times inside the column so by the time the vapor comes out, it's more concentrated.

With your existing setup, I think it would be tough to get above 60%. Home distillation is legal in NZ, and there are a few good suppliers in Australia and NZ. Have you thought about buying a new still or making a new one? I think it would be easier and more cost-effective than modifying what you have. And that way, you can have a dedicated oils extractor .

[FRANCOIS]

Oddly enough my corner convenience store has a pretty extensive range of homebrew supplies, including distillers.  They start at $800 though. 

Why is 60% my limit?  I do have access to an ok lab here at the factory.  Mos tof our tests have been farmed out so there is an excess of equipment I am able to use.

How about freezing vodka and filtering?  Could I remove water that way?

[linuxboy]

The 60% has to do with the way distillation works. At the beginning, in regular pot still mode with no reflux, the distillate will be around 80%. It quickly goes down in concentration, though, as more water liquid is turned to vapor. End result is that your average after collecting a bit will be around 60. Now you could take that 60% and distill again, and collect in small containers, maybe 1/20th of the total volume. That way your first 4-5 containers will be very concentrated. It's one way to get what you want, but it is laborious.

Freezing would work to concentrate, but you'd need a pretty low temp for vodka.

I just checked out some NZ still prices and I had no idea they were that high
http://www.brewcraft.co.nz/wa.asp?idWebPage=9608&idDetails=298

Found one for 462  http://4abrew.co.nz/online-shop/76

Maybe try one off ebay?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Copper-Alcohol-Moonshine-Ethanol-Still-E-85-Reflux-NR-1_W0QQitemZ290349316057QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item439a2af7d9

[whichwhey?]

Me, no. I have been reading everything under the sun about alcohol and would not trust anything that has been home distilled.

Interesting, what makes you say that? Most commercial producers operate a continuous still process and do not make cuts of higher volatiles like ethyl acetate and acetone that are present in the first fractions of distillate, nor do they cut the tails that have heavier oils. Those things are what cause hangovers. Aging and using charred barrels helps with getting rid of some nasties but not all. A pure hearts fraction from the middle, on the other hand, is much purer, but more expensive to produce.

Some smaller-scale distillers produce quality products, but the major commercial stuff out there is made without cuts.

I mean home distilled.

[Likesspace]

Okay Linuxboy... I have to ask.
Is your real name Owsley Stanley, the LSD guy from the 1960's?
It seems to me that you know a LOT about anything to do with chemistry.
I am simply amazed at the knowledge you have.
Keep posting. You make this forum not only interesting, but also informative.

Dave

[DeejayDebi]

I thought that was Timothy Leary? 

[Likesspace]

Nope, Timothy Leary had his little moment in the spotlight but Owsley Stanley was THE bathtub chemist of the 60's.
Of course he is most known for his LSD manufacturing but he also was pretty much a genius when it came to sound engineering.
He was the man behind The Grateful Dead's "Wall of Sound" and in fact received his nickname from the band, "The Bear".
I had the....ummm...opportunity to "speak" with him via a low carb diet forum, a couple of years ago.
Although there is no denying that the man is very intelligent, he also came across as a bit of a smart*** and was very touchy if anyone disagreed with anything that he said.
In short I did not care for the man at all.
Now having said that, I will say this.....
(disclaimer start)
When I made my comment about the possibility of Linuxboy being Stanley in disguise, I was referring to the vast amount of knowledge that LB possesses. I in NO WAY consider LB to represent any of the personality qualities I've described. I've always found him to be most helpful and his information valid. (disclaimer end)


Dave

[DeejayDebi]

NOW I know who your talking about. The LSD didn't do it but the Grateful Dead did!

[Likesspace]

LOL@Debi...
I did make a mistake in my previous post.....
I said that the Grateful Dead gave the Bear his nickname but I spoke incorrectly.
The nick actually came when he was a teenager and developed an enormous amount of body hair at an early age. At the time he was taking ballet classes and his classmates referred to him as the dancing bear. This was something that was immortalized on an inside jacket cover of a Grateful Dead album, but they, in fact, did not give him the nick.
He was also instrumental in designing the Dead logo of the skull and lightning bolt.
I do know quite a lot about Owsley Stanley, but like I said before he's not really my cup of tea. I believe that no matter how well informed we might be on a certain subject we can still learn from others. From what I've seen of this man he does not share my opinion, in fact it seems that the only opinion that matters is his own.
To me, that would be a pretty sad way of living one's life.

Okay, enough said.
Dave

[linuxboy]

LOL, you're too kind. I think I seem smarter on the Internet. In real life, I'm more of an idiot savant, but without the savant part . I do love biology and chemistry, though.

Owsley Stanley is one interesting dude.

Francois, if you read this, let me know if you want some help with putting together a column that does reflux. With a few hours of work and $150 in parts from the local plumbing shop, you can make yourself a distiller that will give you 90+% ethanol. Then you can charge it with a 80 proof vodka, or make a basic sugar wash and distill that.