Author Topic: Ooooh...Gouda!  (Read 3637 times)

Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Ooooh...Gouda!
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2009, 05:38:27 PM »
I brine at room temperature. Seems to work best for me.

Hey Boofer I have the bowl too! Did you air dry the cheese before bagging it? I thought I'd read you did.


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Offline Boofer

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Re: Ooooh...Gouda!
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2009, 09:41:59 AM »
I went back and checked here on the forum and it calls for 60°F/15.6°C brining temperature.

That seems to work for me, although if my cave is filled with cheeses, that may not be an optimal solution.

Debi - If you're asking about that Alpine, yes, I did air-dry it before I bagged it. It's looking pretty good, but it's still quite young. I'm hoping it turns out to be more than just another Parmesan look-alike. Seems like all my Swisses turn out hard and dry. I sweated this one for about two weeks before I sealed it up.

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Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Ooooh...Gouda!
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2009, 08:29:10 PM »
Ah I see good luck hon!

Offline Boofer

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Re: Ooooh...Gouda!
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2009, 10:05:49 AM »
This wheel has been in a vacuum-sealed bag since October 9th. Some small amount of whey accumulated inside the bag. Last night I cracked the wheel. Once again, I have a crumbly cheese. Salt content is okay...fairly light actually. It was in the brine/whey for 7 hours. I see that I used 2 cups of kosher salt to 1 gallon of whey. I should have doubled the salt.

As you can see from the pics, the slice is fractured.  :(

I felt good about the techniques I employed for this cheese, but somewhere along the line I missed a beat. At 5 drops of annatto, the final color is a shade of light cream.

So why the crumbling texture? 25 minutes ripening. Temp at 89F. Cooking slowly up to 100F.

I sliced (or tried to) some off of one quarter (the other three were vacuum-sealed with my new FoodSaver and returned to cave-age), and toasted it on sourdough, then added a thin slice of roast beef. Pretty tasty!  ;D

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Offline linuxboy

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Re: Ooooh...Gouda!
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2009, 10:15:25 AM »
What were your pH levels during the make? Crumbly usually means too much acid production before draining and moulding/pressing.
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Offline Boofer

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Re: Ooooh...Gouda!
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2009, 10:39:17 AM »
I'm sorry, I don't check pH levels yet. No meter and I don't trust the strips. I was keenly aware of the possibility of excessive acidification. That's why I limited the ripening to 25 minutes. I was really trying to limit the acid production. Eh, didn't work.

Maybe Santa will bring me a pH meter.  :)

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Offline Likesspace

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Re: Ooooh...Gouda!
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2009, 06:58:40 PM »
Boofer...
Here's my take on your situation (take it for what it's worth).
I agree 100% with LB concerning too much acid.
A Gouda should have a whey Ph reading of 5.4 to 5.5 at the END of pressing.
Since Gouda curd is not salted it continued to become more acidic all during your pressing time so I'm sure that your final Ph was well below the target.
Today I made my first Gouda of the year and here is my pressing schedule (understand that I'm reading from my notes and I use a pneumatic press so my readings are LINE PRESSURE of this style of press).
20 lb line pressure for 15 minutes
40 lb line pressure for 30 minutes
70 lb line pressure for 1 hour, 20 minutes
At this point I removed the cheese from the press and placed into my saturated brine solution. The reason being is that my whey Ph was reading 5.45 at this point which is right where I wanted to be.
I had originally planned on a 3 hour press at 70 lb line pressure, but since my ph was right, I ended the press.
Is this the right way to go? Well the answer is I really don't know.
What I do know is that some of my Goudas would turn out fantastic and others would be crumbly and bitter. I've not been one to keep really good notes in the past and because of that I never knew what type of cheese I would turn out with. I will say that even the Goudas that had a good flavor did NOT have a good texture (crumbly) and I'm certain that it was because I pressed too long.
My family and friends have always raved about my Gouda attempts but I've never been that happy with them.
Because of that I am now building my own recipe and hoping for the best.
This is my first attempt, using this recipe, but the wheel did have a completely different "feel" than any of my past attempts. Time will tell how it works out, but I am pretty happy that I hit the proper Ph target.
I'm going to give this wheel two weeks and then cut it open. If it does work out I will be sure to post the recipe I used on this board.
As with any other cheese I'm positive that Ph is everything when it comes to a proper Gouda texture and taste so that's what I'm working towards.
Sorry this was so long winded, but as I said earlier I'm certain that your problem is with too much acid production. Hopefully my take on this situation will prove itself out with my own attempt.

Dave

Offline Likesspace

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Re: Ooooh...Gouda!
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2009, 07:02:25 PM »
Oh, and one more thing....
Every single one of my past attempts have looked exactly like the photos you posted.
Not exactly what I would call an ugly cheese, but not exactly what I'm sure we are both looking for.

Dave

Offline Boofer

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Re: Ooooh...Gouda!
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2009, 07:55:02 PM »
Dave - Thanks for your insight.

I guess I have a couple ways to go for this.
  • Less culture to begin with
  • Shorter ripening time

Then if I also shorten the pressing time, that should lower my overall acid level. I really want to discover "the secret" to why my cheeses are dry & crumbly. That seems to be a really common theme here. I have heard the common rationales but I have yet to correct the problem and produce a decent Gouda or Colby. Two tries each...four cheeses total that ended with the same defect. Arrrgh!  >:(

One of the clues that Sailor presented seems very plausible for this Gouda. There was whey leakage in the vacuum bag even after I removed the wheel and dried it off. I am now rethinking my pressing program and eyeing a 15:1 advantage pulley&lever press that will press every little bit of whey out of the wheel. It has yet to be built, but I'm thinking I need to have more press power in a shorter period of time to also reduce the production of acid. Isn't that what commercial operations do?

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Offline Boofer

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Re: Ooooh...Gouda!
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2010, 07:26:21 PM »
Well here's an interesting development in Gouda #2. I had cut the wheel into quarters and then vacuum-sealed three of the quarters and put them back in the cave.

The vacuum bags have seemingly released their vacuum and the bag is quite loose around the cheese. I know the vacuum is intact so the only other reason for the bag being so loose is that the cheese is outgassing. Add to that the fact that the center of the cheese seems to be developing a Brie-like consistency. The picture attempts to show that. I sampled the first quarter with these two characteristics and noted that the salt content is relatively low, as is the acid level. Now these are two traits I wanted to nail down in my next cheese (this one) so that should be a good thing. But at this point I don't know what's going on. Any ideas?

As far as the overall flavor after barely a month, the flavor is . . . curious. I don't know whether I like it or not. The spreadable nature of the inner part is troubling. I know I definitely did not make a Brie.  :o

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Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Ooooh...Gouda!
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2010, 08:48:12 PM »
Gee when you added the water to the whey that should have slow acid production. Maybe the Havrati trick with dipping it in plain water would help?

It could be that the curds held to much moisture too. Maybe cut them sooner and heat slower. The melting cheese could be to much moisture also. Did it come up to temperature really fast after healing? That can harden the outter edges of the curd and cause them to hold to much whey.

Offline Boofer

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Re: Ooooh...Gouda!
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2010, 10:35:11 PM »
Like I said, the acid level was reduced. The wheel, when cut, showed a crumbly texture which seemed drier than perhaps a Gouda should be so I don't think excess moisture was an issue. What seems plausible is that the culture (or some culture) was working overtime on the cheese. As far as the temperature coming up after healing...I brought it up slowly, taking about an hour.

What is the "Havrati trick with dipping it in plain water"?

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Offline DeejayDebi

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Re: Ooooh...Gouda!
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2010, 10:46:33 PM »
There's a Havarti thread here somewhere (Havarti is washed rind also) and the recipe said dip the cheese in plain water. I think it's on Ricci's site. well we mulled this over for awhile and I tried it. It works great! Perfect texture every time. I tried it twice now. It stops the acidification and makes the cheese nice and rubbery(?) Pliable (?). Very Gouda like.  may try this on my next gouda.

Here's the recipe

Offline Boofer

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Re: Ooooh...Gouda!
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2010, 04:54:40 PM »
Well, this goes down as a strange-tasting, odd-acting, out-of-character cheese for me.

The cheese quarters have been in their vacuum bags aging in the cave, but they have continued to "ooze" like Brie. I don't have any idea why the cheese developed this characteristic. Further, the taste is very difficult to describe. It's a little bitter, but overall just not edible. I was hoping that the flavor would improve and I could maybe live with and truly enjoy the Gouda that thinks it's a Brie. There was no mold nor other signs of contamination.

Sad to say, this one goes out with the morning's compost.  :'(

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Offline humble_servant7

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Re: Ooooh...Gouda!
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2010, 07:40:12 PM »
Quick question for the thread.

At what stage during cheese development does pH actually stop?

From the cheddar thread I've been reading-- apparently the pH doesnt even stop while the cheese is being pressed. It continues on going.

So does the pH number ever cease to stop dropping over time or does it continue doing so all the way through the aging process, while it's in the cave?

Because if the latter is true, that means that technically the cheese is alive, which would defeat the very purpose of vac-sealing it, as sealing it would inhibit the living bacteria's natural interactions with the environment and air around it.

I swear linuxboy addressed this already and said that the bacteria inside of it was virtually dead:

Lactic bacteria is in an anaerobic phase after it finishes eating lactose, it's dormant, and then dies.

http://cheeseforum.org/forum/index.php/topic,2795.msg22516.html#msg22516