Author Topic: Must see: video that explains science behind milk coagulation  (Read 5111 times)

Offline linuxboy

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Ukiah, CA
  • Posts: 3,986
  • Cheeses: 199
  • www.wacheese.com
    • Washington Cheese Guild
Must see: video that explains science behind milk coagulation
« on: October 19, 2009, 08:26:50 PM »
I've posted some details before about the science of coagulation in terms of the casein micelle, how the enzyme chymosin acts on the micelle, the formation phases of a curd matrix, flocculation timings, and so on. But I think a lot of it has been overly technical. I found a video that does a great job in covering coagulation, and also provides an illustration for what happens at the biochemical level.

Some highlights are:

1) Uneven action of chymosin in cleaving not only k-casein but also the underlying a&b casein can lead to bitterness. This is part why using too much rennet can cause bitterness. The other reason is the too-rapid proteolytic action during aging when too much rennet remains with the curd.
2) The end of phase 1, which coincides with the flocculation point, is when most of the k-casein shell has been cleaved and when the matrix starts to form because the micelles can attach to each other.

Have a look:

Enzymes for cheese - CHY-MAX® M coagulant


I haven't tried Chymax yet, but it seems like a very promising product.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2009, 01:03:18 PM by linuxboy »
Taking an extended leave (until 2015) from the forums to build out my farm and dairy. Please e-mail or PM if you need anything.


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline DeejayDebi

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Connecticut
  • Posts: 5,804
  • Cheeses: 95
    • Deejays Smoke Pit and DSP Forums
Re: Must see: video that explains science behind milk coagulation
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2009, 10:44:18 PM »
Great video! Very informative. I have been looking at the articles on the new CHY-MAX-M coagulant but can not seem to get any responses to my queries. I wanted to try this new product.

Thanks!

Offline linuxboy

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Ukiah, CA
  • Posts: 3,986
  • Cheeses: 199
  • www.wacheese.com
    • Washington Cheese Guild
Re: Must see: video that explains science behind milk coagulation
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2009, 10:48:56 PM »
I'm planning on buying some to try and switch my normal rennet out. Want me to repack a pint and send to you?
Taking an extended leave (until 2015) from the forums to build out my farm and dairy. Please e-mail or PM if you need anything.

Offline Sailor Con Queso

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Kentucky
  • Posts: 2,538
  • Cheeses: 127
    • Boone Creek Creamery
Re: Must see: video that explains science behind milk coagulation
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2009, 12:00:54 PM »
Looks like a really interesting product. Where are you getting your CHY-MAX-M?
A moldy Stilton is a thing of beauty. Yes, you eat the rind. - Ed
www.boonecreekcreamery.com

Offline mtncheesemaker(Pam)

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Paonia, CO
  • Posts: 677
  • Cheeses: 29
  • Default personal text
Re: Must see: video that explains science behind milk coagulation
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2009, 12:31:36 PM »
Thanks for all the educational postings! The more I understand, the more (I hope) I'll be able to expand my repertoire.
I'm into a more natural approach myself- only use raw fresh milk- so probably wouldn't use that product.
Pam


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline linuxboy

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Ukiah, CA
  • Posts: 3,986
  • Cheeses: 199
  • www.wacheese.com
    • Washington Cheese Guild
Re: Must see: video that explains science behind milk coagulation
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2009, 01:31:13 PM »
Hi Pam,

For acid coagulated cheeses that don't use rennet, coagulation happens because of the acid. The micelle has the outer layer of k-casein which likes water (hydrophilic) and stays in suspension because it has an electrical charge. When the pH gets low enough, to 4.6, that charge is no longer there, and the micelles drop out of suspension, making curd. That pH level of 4.6 in milk is also called the isoelectric point.

Sailor, I'm going to buy directly from CHR Hansen. They have an office in Wisconsin. I think the smallest size is 1 gal.

Taking an extended leave (until 2015) from the forums to build out my farm and dairy. Please e-mail or PM if you need anything.

Offline mtncheesemaker(Pam)

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Paonia, CO
  • Posts: 677
  • Cheeses: 29
  • Default personal text
Re: Must see: video that explains science behind milk coagulation
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2009, 04:04:58 PM »
Think I'm gonna brush up on the old organic chem. Note to self: get a pH meter!
Thanks,
Pam

Offline DeejayDebi

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Connecticut
  • Posts: 5,804
  • Cheeses: 95
    • Deejays Smoke Pit and DSP Forums
Re: Must see: video that explains science behind milk coagulation
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2009, 05:51:34 PM »
I'm planning on buying some to try and switch my normal rennet out. Want me to repack a pint and send to you?

That would be great hon. Just tell me how much and I'll send funds. How did you get it? I have hit their contact button a few times and no response.

Offline Sailor Con Queso

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Kentucky
  • Posts: 2,538
  • Cheeses: 127
    • Boone Creek Creamery
Re: Must see: video that explains science behind milk coagulation
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2009, 11:01:00 PM »
If you have extra, count me in too.  ;D
A moldy Stilton is a thing of beauty. Yes, you eat the rind. - Ed
www.boonecreekcreamery.com

Offline linuxboy

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Ukiah, CA
  • Posts: 3,986
  • Cheeses: 199
  • www.wacheese.com
    • Washington Cheese Guild
Re: Must see: video that explains science behind milk coagulation
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2009, 03:03:07 AM »
Sure, I think I'll just split up a gallon into 32, 4 oz dropper bottles for convenience, and send them out to anyone who wants to try. I'll follow good aseptic lab procedures to ensure there's no contamination. No idea of cost right now, but it'll be cost of the rennet+bottle+shipping. Probably will wind up somewhere in the $3-$5 range+ shipping. I'll follow up in a few weeks with a new post after I get it all sorted out.
Taking an extended leave (until 2015) from the forums to build out my farm and dairy. Please e-mail or PM if you need anything.


Guests, join the CheeseForum.org community to remove this ad.


Offline Sailor Con Queso

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Kentucky
  • Posts: 2,538
  • Cheeses: 127
    • Boone Creek Creamery
Re: Must see: video that explains science behind milk coagulation
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2009, 10:18:38 AM »
LB - Your SUCH a nice guy. Really.

A gallon is a LOT of rennet. How does the shelf life of CHY-MAX-M compare to animal rennet? Is it equivalent to single or double strength?
A moldy Stilton is a thing of beauty. Yes, you eat the rind. - Ed
www.boonecreekcreamery.com

Offline linuxboy

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Ukiah, CA
  • Posts: 3,986
  • Cheeses: 199
  • www.wacheese.com
    • Washington Cheese Guild
Re: Must see: video that explains science behind milk coagulation
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2009, 10:46:12 PM »
Sailor, in general Aspergillus-fermented rennet has a very stable and long life. At 2 C you can expect 4-5% degradation/year. That's better than animal rennet, and about the same as regular m. miehei-derived rennet. I haven't read the product spec yet (not available), so I may not be exactly correct.

I got in touch with my CHR Hansen rep and she said Chymax-M is not available for general distribution yet. I think they're still building their production line. I'll try and bribe her in exchange for a small sample. No kidding, I've sent cookies before as a "bribe" (I called it a thank-you) with another company and it totally worked. :D. I'll let you know.
Taking an extended leave (until 2015) from the forums to build out my farm and dairy. Please e-mail or PM if you need anything.

Offline FarmerJD

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Alabama
  • Posts: 838
  • Cheeses: 34
Re: Must see: video that explains science behind milk coagulation
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2009, 11:25:50 PM »
You can count me in if you are not overwhelmed with responses. I don't want to be a bother but I would like to try it.

Offline Likesspace

  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Southern Illinois
  • Posts: 773
  • Cheeses: 20
    • Middleton Street Weather
Re: Must see: video that explains science behind milk coagulation
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2009, 06:47:17 PM »
LB...
That's a neat video!
Like Farmer said, if you aren't already overwhelmed with requests, I'd like to also be put on the list. It sounds really promising.

Dave

Offline Wayne Harris

  • Wine and Cheesemaker
  • Old Cheese
  • *****
  • Location: Cleveland, Ohio
  • Posts: 1,938
  • Cheeses: 53
  • Wayne Harris
Re: Must see: video that explains science behind milk coagulation
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2009, 06:53:03 PM »
I am in as well.  Let me know how much and where to send $$
Wayne A. Harris - in vino veritas